The Senedd met by video-conference at 11:00 with the Llywydd (Elin Jones) in the Chair.

Statement by the Llywydd

Welcome, all, to this Plenary session. Before we begin, I want to set out a few points. A Plenary meeting held by video-conference in accordance with the Standing Orders of the Welsh Parliament constitutes Senedd proceedings for the purposes of the Government of Wales Act 2006. Some provisions of Standing Order 34 will apply for today's Plenary meeting, and these are set out on your agenda. I would remind Members that Standing Orders relating to order in Plenary apply to this meeting, as do the time limits on questions that will be applied to this meeting.

1. Questions to the First Minister

So, the first item on our agenda this morning is questions to the First Minister, and the first question is from Caroline Jones.

Caroline, if you can wait for your microphone to be unmuted. You need to unmute your microphone, Caroline.

Caroline Jones AC: Diolch, Llywydd.

Dealing with Future Pandemics

Caroline Jones AC: 1. What steps is the Welsh Government taking to ensure Wales is equipped to deal with future pandemics? OQ55394

Mark Drakeford AC: Diolch, Llywydd. I thank the Member for that question. The Welsh Government leads a set of local resilience arrangements and participates in UK-wide networks that, together, focus on public protection and pandemic preparedness.

Caroline Jones AC: Thank you, First Minister. I'm sure that you will agree that we were woefully unprepared for COVID-19. Despite SARS and MERS, our pandemic planning was still based upon an outbreak of influenza. However, our planning still neglected to prioritise testing capacity. This current pandemic has shown that those countries that had testing capacity early on made it through the initial outbreak relatively unscathed.
Leading virologists have warned that other unknown viruses could threaten us in future as climate change and population growth force humans into closer contact with wildlife. As with this coronavirus, we have to test and isolate the infected, and we can't afford to quarantine everyone. First Minister, what plans does your Government have to ensure that Wales has sufficient lab capacity to conduct tens of thousands of reverse transcription polymerase chain reaction tests on a daily basis? Thank you.

Mark Drakeford AC: Llywydd, I thank Caroline Jones for that question, and I agree with what she said about the changing nature of the threats that we see on a global scale and the need for us to be alert to them. It is why we have our own Wales response plan. It's why we work through our local resilience forums, and then that we are linked into the UK structures as well. The four nations' chief medical officer meetings, the fact that emergency planning leads meet as a group across the four nations: all of those things mean that we are playing our part in the efforts that are needed across the United Kingdom to be well prepared for the future and to put those things in place that will make us resilient for any future events of this sort that we may need to face.

Angela Burns AC: Good morning, Llywydd. Good morning, First Minister. Picking up on Caroline's point, of course, none of us were prepared for this pandemic, and I think that we, as a world, have learned some very significant lessons about what happens when you impinge on nature and how we can all respond. And, of course, the point that Caroline has raised about the testing capacity is vitally important, and I know that you acknowledge that. But whilst we may have been caught on the hop in terms of the general pandemic, we have had now months to start getting our testing regime in place and working. Yet, figures produced yesterday show that little over a fifth of the daily testing capacity in Wales has been utilised, and for the seventh week in a row there was a slow-down on testing for healthcare workers. Additionally, we are still waiting 48, sometimes 72, hours for tests to come back. And the point made before, which I think we'd all agree with, is that we need to get people back into the workplace, back out into their real lives, as soon as possible if they're self-isolating because people around them or they have symptoms.
So, First Minister, what are you going to be able to do to ensure that we have a comprehensive and responsive testing regime that can move forward, that can deliver for Wales? How will you change things to improve it? How will you ensure that this testing regime is fit for any purpose that might be thrown at us with any other pandemics that may come our way?

Mark Drakeford AC: Llywydd, I thank Angela Burns for that. Well, we have a comprehensive testing regime in place in Wales. We have more tests available today than at any time previously, with just under 15,000 tests available in Wales every day. The fact that sometimes fewer people are being tested simply means there are fewer people needing a test. It's not our ambition simply to test people who don't need testing. There are fewer, sometimes, healthcare workers needing testing—that's why the numbers are down. There are fewer people being tested in care homes, but that's because we have a regime of testing everybody every week who work in care homes.
In terms of the way in which tests are turned around, we need to improve the proportion of tests that are completed within 24 hours, but the number of tests that are turned around within 24 hours is higher than it's been at any point in the pandemic. That's because more tests are being carried out. So, when the proportion of tests completed within 24 hours was at its highest, we completed between 200 and 300 a day within 24 hours. Now, when the proportion is lower, we're carrying out 1,700 a day within 24 hours because there are far more tests being carried out. And in north Wales, in the two pandemics, we have been turning around the huge majority of tests within 24 hours.
I think that our test, trace and protect system has demonstrated that it's been able to mobilise and to provide the service that is needed in those contexts, and I think that's something that we ought to be glad about. I think we ought to give a bit of credit to those people who worked so hard to make sure that those arrangements are in place and working effectively.

Rhianon Passmore AC: First Minister, it is being reported today that the US Government has secured virtually all the stocks of one of the two drugs that are shown to currently help COVID-19 patients. The White House said that it had bought up more than 500,000 courses of remdesivir, an antiviral that trials suggest helps some patients spend less time in hospital. This includes all of the supplies that will be manufactured this month, as well as 90 per cent of those due in August and September. Such unilateral deals obviously have implications for patients in Islwyn and across Wales, so what assessment has the Welsh Government made of the effective supply of medicines in this global pandemic?

Mark Drakeford AC: I thank Rhianon Passmore for that important question. She's right to point to the challenges that there are in securing effective supplies of medicines. There is increased demand for medicines around the globe, but there has been falling production capacity because India and China, where many medicines are produced, have had to stand back from production because of the impact of coronavirus in their own countries. The continuity of supply of medicines is a reserved matter, it isn't a matter that is devolved to Wales, but we have been working hard with the other four nations to make sure that there are plans in place to understand demand, to allocate available stock, to increase supply where required.
We face, as I know Rhianon Passmore will know, the additional difficulty of leaving the European Union without a proper deal. Ninety per cent of these medicines come into the United Kingdom across the short strait between Calais and Dover. If there were to be disruption to those supplies, the UK Government previously planned to rely on air freight, but air freight isn't moving in the COVID crisis. So, there are real issues arising from coronavirus thatwe are all grappling with, but there are avoidable difficulties that are looming on the horizon as well. And as the body responsible for continuity of supply of medicines, it's really incumbent on the UK Government not to add to the difficulties we are already facing and the challenges that coronavirus itself has produced.

Supporting the Aviation Sector

Jack Sargeant AC: 2. Will the First Minister make a statement on what the Welsh Government is doing to support the aviation sector in Wales? OQ55393

Mark Drakeford AC: Well, Llywydd, following the overnight news about Airbus, I wanted to be absolutely clear that the Welsh Government will do all we can to support the company and its workforce in these very difficult times. But the global nature of the current crisis in aviation means that local solutions will not be sufficient by themselves to ensure the future of this important strategic industry. And we continue to work with the UK Government to press them to provide targeted assistance for the aviation sector.

Jack Sargeant AC: Thank you for that, First Minister, and I appreciate the continued support of the Welsh Government.But I must say I am absolutely furious and, frankly, upset. For months now, I have been telling the UK Government that they must intervene to support jobs in the aviation and aerospace sector, and, honestly, I've heard nothing back.
This is an industry that had full order books. This is not the fault of the company nor its workforce. When the Governments needed ventilators a few months ago, this workforce stepped up to the plate and produced 10,000 ventilators. The UK Government has a—[Inaudible.] First Minister, will you speak directly with Boris Johnson and tell him that he must act now?

Mark Drakeford AC: Llywydd, I thank Jack Sargeant for that and for his long-standing commitment to Airbus and to its workforce. When I last visited there on 30 January, it was with Jack, and we were there to celebrate apprenticeship week. We met a fantastic group of very talented, very bright, very committed young people, looking to a successful future in an industry in which, at that point, had a very successful future in front of it.
What we have to do, working together with the UK Government, is to find a way of helping this industry to bridge between the difficulties it faces today and the successful future that is still there for it, provided we can help it through the difficult couple of years ahead. And there are many actions that can be taken—things we will do to continue to support apprenticeships, to develop skills of the workforce, to invest in research and development, and then there is the part the UK Government has to play.
Our colleague Ken Skates spoke yesterday with Ministers in the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy. He was talking to the Secretary of State at BEIS on Friday. This week of course I will talk to any Minister in the UK Government to press the case for the sort of sector-specific help that is now needed, as the French Government has done, as the German Government has done, to demonstrate that the world-leading aviation sector that we have in Wales and in the United Kingdom goes on being supported by Governments here at all levels.

Mark Isherwood. Mark Isherwood—

Mark Isherwood AC: I've unmuted. Thank you. I received a briefing, alongside Welsh Conservative MPs in north-east Wales, from Airbus last night. We note that tomorrow, when the announcements are likely to have detail added to them—we hope that it is going to be dealt with without compulsory redundancies. But I hope to touch on that later in a topical question.
On 9 April Airbus announced it was cutting production because of new rules on distancing and said that it was reducing temporary production and support labour supplied by Guidant Global. On 28 April Guidant Global furloughed their almost 500 workforce at Airbus and served them with a risk-of-redundancy notice. And yesterday Airbus announced that the job losses were in addition to reductions of more than 700 temps and subcontractors at UK commercial sites. But in addition to the work the Welsh Government will be doing directly, and with the UK Government, for Airbus, what support have you been providing, or what will you be providing, for those Guidant Global employees?

Mark Drakeford AC: Well, Llywydd, the Member makes an important point that the difficulties in the aviation sector go beyond Airbus, go beyond the direct employees of Airbus, but go into the supply chain as well—150 firms, we think, with 1,500 additional jobs that rely on Airbus as part of their business futures. So, the response that the Welsh Government will make, including bringing together in a submit all those local players and Welsh national players who have a part to play in responding to the difficulties that Airbus itself faces and the knock-on effects that that has for others in the supply chain more broadly, will be a way in which we will look to design together the sort of response that supports this sector, because it has a successful future. We need to get it through the next couple of years, and we need to do that without losing really experienced and very skilled people who this company will need again when order books pick up and the global economy recovers. Our efforts will be very much directed at that impact in the round that we will see across the economy of north-east Wales.

Helen Mary Jones AC: I thank the First Minister for his answers, and I'm sure that we're all thinking of the staff members and their families who are living through this very uncertain time. I fully understand, of course, the points the First Minister makes about the vital role of the UK Government, but we may find ourselves in a situation where there will be some Airbus jobs that will be lost, and, obviously, our priority must be ensuring minimising the number of those jobs that are lost here in Wales. So, to a certain extent, there's an element of competition there.
I wonder—. The First Minister mentions the summit, and that is obviously very welcome. I wonder what discussions the Welsh Government has had or will have with Airbus about what steps we might be able to take to give the Welsh workforce the best possible advantage. Are there, for example, things that need to be done in the field of infrastructure, whether that be digital infrastructure, practical infrastructure, that could be offered as not an immediate solution, but as a short-term solution to make it more attractive for Airbus to stay here and keep the work here if there is some inevitable loss—not that we would wish, of course, any workers to lose their jobs anywhere?

Mark Drakeford AC: Well, I thank Helen Mary Jones for that. She's absolutely right: our thoughts today must be focused on those people whose futures are now so uncertain. I had a meeting at 10 o'clock this morning with Unite the union, who represents the bulk of workers at Broughton. There were members of Broughton staff involved in that call, and it's a very sober and shocked atmosphere at the plant this morning.
Helen Mary Jones is right, as well, that the plant at Broughton has always had to compete with other Airbus sites elsewhere in Europe. It's because of the joint working with the trade union that the management there will tell you that it is at the leading edge of production, of efficiency, of health and safety—all the things that the company values, Broughton has been at a leading edge. That's partly because of the help they've had from the Welsh Government and others. Our investment in the advanced manufacturing research centre was absolutely designed to give Broughton an edge in attracting the wing of the future research to north Wales, and we will go on doing that. If there are things that we can do that will help Broughton persuade Airbus globally to bring more work to north Wales, where they have this dedicated, skilled and very committed workforce, then, of course, we will do that, as we have in the past, and will intensify whatever efforts we can to assist them in that way.

Questions Without Notice from the Party Leaders

Questions now from the party leaders. Leader of Plaid Cymru, Adam Price.

Adam Price AC: Diolch, Llywydd. First Minister, this week, we've seen some encouraging news from Scotland, with the number of confirmed COVID-19 deaths there falling to three in total over the last five days, and Professor Devi Sridhar predicting that Scotland could be practically COVID-free in terms of non-imported cases by the end of the summer. In England, by way of contrast, it's been reported that the chief medical officer there expects to see the level of new daily infections remaining at the current level of around 3,000 a day for the foreseeable future. First Minister, do you think that a COVID-free Wales, in the terms described, is a realistic aspiration in the near term, and is aiming for zero, in a sense, the surest way of avoiding a second spike?

Mark Drakeford AC: Well, I'm pleased to say in response to Adam Price that many of the key indicators in Wales continue to head in the right direction as well, with death numbers falling, with hospital admissions falling, with numbers of patients in critical care falling again in the last week for which we have complete figures. In one sense, aiming for a COVID-free Wales is of course what we would want to do, but I want to be realistic with people as well: we have a long and porous border; that it is difficult to regard Wales as an island for these purposes, and that our ability to make Wales COVID-free very much depends upon the efforts that are made across the United Kingdom in the same direction.
We have heard—I know he has heard—stark warnings from the chief medical officer that, in the autumn, when the cold and the damp return, the conditions in which COVID may thrive will be with us again. So, while aiming to have COVID at the lowest possible level that we can in Wales, we shouldn't think that that means that we're out of the woods and that there aren't other dangers in front of us in the rest of this calendar year.

Adam Price AC: Many countries have successfully suppressed the virus to near-zero new cases. New Zealand is regarded as the world leader, but it's not alone. Greece, Slovenia, Austria, Norway have also suppressed the virus to the extent that restrictions there are now limited and new cases rare, and, like Wales, those countries are not islands either.
I take the First Minister's point, but would he like to see an elimination strategy adopted across the whole of the UK, and will he ask the technical advisory cell to look at the experience specifically of those countries that have adopted an elimination strategy to see whether that could be adopted in full or in part in Wales?

Mark Drakeford AC: I'm very happy to ask the technical advisory group for their views on that. We already do get advice from them that draws on experience elsewhere in the world. When I was able to make an announcement on Monday about extended households here in Wales, it was very much informed by the New Zealand experience and things we have learnt from them. I think Adam Price points to some very interesting examples when he points, for example, to Norway and to Greece as places that have borders with other countries where the experience has been different, and, in that sense, if there are things that we can learn from them that will help us on the journey to bear down on coronavirus to the maximum possible extent, I would be very keen that we learn those lessons here in Wales and I'm very happy that we deploy the assistance we get through the technical advisory group to give us whatever lessons they think can be learned from experiences in those places, and then to apply it to be of assistance to us here in Wales.

Adam Price AC: Even in those countries that have been successful in disease suppression, of course the price of liberty from the virus, if you like, is eternal vigilance, particularly as regards new outbreaks, and we see possibly in Leicester as well, don't we, the danger potentially of not having local intelligence turned quickly enough into local action. So, drawing on recent experience in Wales as well, is the First Minister prepared to make a number of commitments to ensure a rapid turnaround between testing and results, particularly in relation to local outbreaks, and to publishing local dashboards of indicators to identify local spikes? And, finally, can you set out the circumstances and the practical means by which a local lockdown, if it became necessary, would be implemented in Wales?

Mark Drakeford AC: Well, again, I thank Adam Price for those questions. So, in terms of how we would judge whether a local lockdown were necessary,then in the two examples, the live examples, in north-east and north-west Wales, then, in both those cases, the key test will be whether or not there is wider community transmission from the closed settings of the two factories where the outbreaks have taken place. The most recent evidence is encouraging, but I don't want to overstate that, because this week is a very important week in keeping on top of any evidence that transmission has moved from the factory setting, and those most closely associated with it, and into the wider community. If we have evidence of strong community spread, then that would be the indicator for us of a need for further local measures.
Now, you could argue—and I've seen people argue—that in Ynys Môn, for example, we already have a form of local lockdown. There are hundreds of people self-isolating because of the outbreak at 2 Sisters, and the local authority took the decision quite early on not to reopen schools in Ynys Môn alongside the rest of Wales on Monday. So, we already have some differentiated policy interventions happening because of that local outbreak.
We are absolutely clear that—. Unlike in Leicester, where there seemed to be quite a lot of confusion as to whether the legal powers existed and to whom they belonged, we are very clear that, in Wales, Welsh Ministers have the powers through our regulations to take local action to reduce, if we had to, some of the freedoms we've been able to reintroduce in order to deal with local outbreaks. And we would certainly be prepared to do that were the need to be there.
On the Member's point about local dashboards, I'm very happy again to get some advice on that to see whether that sort of information exists in a way that will be meaningful and reliable at a local level. And, if it is, then the Welsh Government's policy throughout the coronavirus crisis has been to make as much information public as possible, so people can understand their local context and then to act in the way that Adam Price said, because it isn't Governments that take the decisive actions in these areas—it is the actions of citizens being vigilant in the way that Adam Price described that, in the end, gives us the greatest defence.

Leader of the Welsh Conservatives, Paul Davies.

Paul Davies AC: Diolch, Llywydd. First Minister, yesterday's news that Airbus is set to cut 1,700 jobs across the UK, as it struggles with the effects of the coronavirus crisis, is a devastating blow to workers in Broughton and, indeed, in north-east Wales, and the Welsh Government rightly responded to say that it would use all of the levers at its disposal to support workers throughout this difficult time. As you said earlier, it's crucial now that inter-governmental work takes place immediately, and I hope that Governments are working together at all levels to best support the workers in Broughton at this time.
First Minister, you've already described what measures you are looking to take to support the company and its workers at Airbus, but this news will, as Mark Isherwood said earlier, also undoubtedly have an effect on the wider supply chain, which will include a number of local businesses. So, can you tell us what specific measures and schemes the Welsh Government is at the moment considering to ensure that the supply chain is as supported as it can be?

Mark Drakeford AC: Well, I think I'd say to the Member that very difficult as that news has been overnight, we can point to the way in which, with the UK Government and with the local authority, we were able to respond to the decision of Ford to leave Bridgend, with 1,300 jobs lost there directly, but the way in which the teams we put together, and the structures that we introduced, were very much focused on the supply chains in the automotive industry as well. So, we have some very recent and practical experience of responding to difficulties of this sort.
The key difference between Ford and Airbus is that the Ford decision was a decision to leave Wales altogether, whereas Airbus has a successful future in front of it, provided we can get it through the next difficult months ahead, and that will mean working with supply chains. The summit meeting that I mentioned in my earlier answer is one that will involve the wider economy of north-east Wales and, indeed, the Mersey Dee Alliance, because many people who work at Broughton live in Chester and across our border there, and the impact on supply chains will be felt across that north-east, north-west economy.
So we will work with all those local players, and with the UK Government, in order to make sure that we have a comprehensive picture of the needs, and co-design with people on the ground the sort of help that they will find most useful. We have some off-the-peg things that we do. We've got some tried-and-tested ways in which we mobilise help, but we want to do more than that. We want to make sure that the help we offer will be the help that people locally tell us will be most useful to them. And working with them, and having a summit, will be a way of drawing all that together, to make sure that the help that we are able to offer is calibrated to meet the specific needs and circumstances of that north-east Wales economy.

Paul Davies AC: I very much agree with you: it's vital that Governments and parties are working together, where they can, to support workers at this time, and I'll do whatever I can to constructively work with you, and colleagues in Westminster, to ensure that everything that can be done will be done to support those affected by this news.
Now, sadly, it's not the only announcement regarding job losses in Wales recently, and given that unemployment in Wales doubled in the month of April, it's critical that support is in place for those who have lost their jobs as a result of the coronavirus pandemic. Now is the time for the Welsh Government to be having discussions, of course, with business leaders and skills providers about developing packages to help support people across Wales who may not be able to retain their employment at the end of the furlough scheme because of the COVID-19 pandemic. There are families across Wales who are in an extremely vulnerable position, and given that there will be a degree of uncertainty in the job market for some time yet, it is important that families across Wales feel that support and advice is available. Therefore, can you tell us what assessment has the Welsh Government made of the impact of COVID-19 on employment across Wales, and what discussions has the Welsh Government had with business leaders, and skills providers, about how best to mitigate against any economic shocks as a result of COVID-19?

Mark Drakeford AC: I thank the leader of the opposition for what he said about playing a constructive part in the response to the position faced in Airbus and the wider north-east Wales economy.
The analysis that we have of the Welsh economy, in the COVID context, is that it's quite complex. He'll have heard, I'm sure, today, the reports from Andy Haldane, the deputy governor of the Bank of England, that they think that the early signs are that a v-shaped recovery for many parts of the economy is under way—a sharp downturn, and a very sharp rebound. And we want to make sure that as much of the Welsh economy is able to recover as quickly as possible in that way. But there will be aspects of the Welsh economy where that will be more difficult—companies and industries who are not able to resume activity as quickly as others. And there, we are talking to the UK Government particularly about the long-term arrangements from the job retention scheme, which I've always welcomed in Wales. I've always appreciated what the UK Government has done, and understand that, as industries get back to work, you can't go on offering a furlough scheme to places where people are back working full-time. But in some sectors of the Welsh economy, we need a more specific, sector-specific furlough scheme that will go beyond the end of October. And that will offer comfort to those industries that they will still be able to sustain themselves through the difficult days of this calendar year, and be there to resume activity next year, when, as we all hope, things will be better.
So, we will mobilise the actions that we have, in consultation with business leaders. I was with the head of the Confederation of British Industry in Wales last week and with the head of the Federation of Small Businesses in Wales last week. There were very helpful suggestions from the CBI about how we could work together in mitigating some of the impacts on the Welsh economy, and then we will need help from elsewhere to be able to do the job that we all need to do, focusing on jobs, relentlessly on jobs, in our economy, during the second half of this financial year.

Paul Davies AC: Well, First Minister, as you know, my party have also brought forward proposals to establish a COVID recovery fund for those areas most affected economically, and I hope you'll constructively look at our proposals, which could make a real difference to people affected by the closures and the job losses at Airbus, and indeed Laura Ashley.
Now, in response to the latest Office for National Statistics labour market statistics for Wales, the Learning and Work Institute Cymru were right to say that the picture now starting to emerge is that those areas that entered the crisis with the highest levels of unemployment have experienced some of the largest rises over the last two months. This just demonstrates that there were communities across Wales that were already struggling with levels of deprivation before the COVID-19 pandemic, and so a resilience package, which includes investment, support and opportunities, is needed more than ever.
First Minister, given that the claimant count has nearly doubled, and now stands at the highest level since August 1994, can you tell us what new thinking the Welsh Government is adopting to start—[Inaudible.]—the picture described by the Learning and Work Institute Cymru? Could you also tell us what monitoring of programmes and funding is taking place to ensure that economic funds are reaching those communities in most need and to identify any gaps in support packages? And what is the Welsh Government doing to help build resilience in communities across Wales, particularly those already struggling before the COVID-19 pandemic?

Mark Drakeford AC: Well, Llywydd, the economic resilience fund that the Welsh Government has drawn together has, up until now, been very much focused on simply assisting firms and individuals to cope with the impact of coronavirus. But we have already indicated that there will be a further phase of the ERF, beyond phase 1 and 2, which we are currently operating, and phase 3 will be a recovery phase. And there will be many millions of pounds still in the fund that we will be able to use for recovery, and where there are good ideas as to how that money might most effectively be used, then, of course, we will be very pleased to draw on those ideas, wherever they come from. The fact that we have a recovery phase in our economy will be shaped by the work that Jeremy Miles has been leading to put together a recovery plan for us in Wales, drawing on the best people we can bring together inside Wales, but having people from outside Wales, to make sure that we don't miss out on ideas that people are developing elsewhere, and to challenge us on our own thinking and make sure we are making the best possible fist of designing that recovery stage.
We monitor what we do. If you want just one single example of that in figures that the ONS produced only last week, I think it is over 30 per cent of firms in Wales have benefited from assistance provided, either by the UK Government or by the Welsh Government, in order to help them through the pandemic. It's 21 per cent of firms in Scotland; it's 14 per cent of firms in England. And those are ONS figures, which demonstrate, I think, that the impact of the assistance we've been able to mobilise in Wales has been felt strongly in our economy, and we now want the same approach to be adopted, with the same level of success, in helping the Welsh economy into the recovery phase.

Leader of the Brexit Party, Mark Reckless.

Mark Reckless AC: May I congratulate all the children who are back in school in Wales this week, even if it is part time, and all those who have worked so hard to get them back, not least your education Secretary, Kirsty Williams? I would have liked more children to have returned earlier, but I do not want to criticise the Welsh Government, cavil with what is happening versus what was promised, or make comparisons with England today.
First Minister, whatever our own particular views or interests, shouldn't we all respect that it is you, your Cabinet and Kirsty Williams who are responsible and have the democratic mandate to decide when and how schools should return? Can you confirm that, unlike the teaching unions, you must consider not only the interests of their members, including teacher safety and any now far lower risk of infection, but also the pressing need of many parents to get back to work, and, still more, the purpose of schools being to educate our children, who have already lost too much of that right?

Mark Drakeford AC: Well, I thank the Member for what he said about the efforts that have been made, and they have been made in the way that we try to do things in Wales, in that social partnership way, by bringing teacher unions, non-teacher unions, the local education authorities and the Welsh Government around the table together to craft a way ahead. I sometimes have felt, in the way that some of these arguments have played out publicly, that the word 'children' has not been given the prominence that it needed and deserves. In the end, the reason why we are committed to bringing young people back to school over these weeks is because of our concerns that those young people get a change to meet their teachers again, to catch up with their classmates, to be able to prepare for the summer, and it is their interests in the end—with all the others that we have to bear in mind—that need to, and we think do do, come out at the very top of our agenda.

Mark Reckless AC: The First Minister speaks of social partnership, but an impression many parents have got over the last month or two is that, with powers split between Welsh Government, councils and schools themselves, the teaching unions may have been too dominant an aspect of that partnership. When you, First Minister, spoke about even giving consideration to schools coming back after half term, you quickly were pressed into clarifying that that wasn’t going to happen. It was said under union pressure. We then saw the chief medical officer say that schools returning in the second week of August would be the best, at least in terms of virus risks, but we were then told that wasn't happening because it wasn’t an attractive option to the unions. We then saw your education Secretary announce that schools would come back this week for four weeks, yet almost everywhere, that's not happening, and it will be three weeks. Again, we're told because that’s the position of the unions. Do you share any of that concern that the unions may have had too great an influence on what the timing and what the decisions have been, and what might be done about that?

Mark Drakeford AC: Well, Llywydd, I congratulate teachers in Wales for everything that they have done during this pandemic. We've had 450 schools open as hub schools throughout the experience, with teachers going in, on the front line, at the height of the pandemic, and doing that every single day, working all the way through their half term at the end of May. So, the big picture for me has been the enormous efforts that teachers, supported by their unions, have carried out here in Wales.
There are contractual rights that people have, and unions are there to speak up for their members where their contracts are concerned. Social partnership is never about cosy conversations. It's never about people avoiding difficult issues. We have sat round the table together with our partners in the local education authorities and the people who represent the workforce. We have forged a way together, which means that, uniquely in the United Kingdom, children in Wales are back in school today, and I think that is a very significant achievement, and I'm very glad we've been able to work with colleagues to bring it about.

The Welsh Economy

Neil Hamilton AC: 3. What assessment has the First Minister made of the impact of the coronavirus crisis on the Welsh economy? OQ55357

Mark Drakeford AC: I thank the Member, Llywydd. The Welsh Government's chief economist provides regular advice on the impact of the coronavirus crisis on the Welsh economy. That advice is reported monthly to the COVID core group of Ministers and others, which meets every Wednesday.

Neil Hamilton AC: I thank the First Minister for that reply. After 20 years of devolution, 22 per cent of the people of Wales of working age are living in poverty, and the average disposable income in Wales is only three quarters of the average in the United Kingdom. Those in poverty are more likely to be hit by the economic impacts of COVID than anybody else. The Learning and Work Institute Cymru has said recently that Wales is more exposed than many other parts of the UK to the economic impact of lockdown, and we've got the highest proportion, at 18 per cent, of workers employed in industries most affected by lockdown measures. So, if unemployment goes up amongst those groups, we're going to be in a very serious economic predicament in Wales.
Cardiff University has shown in a paper published this week that Wales's lowest earners are 10 times more likely to have been affected by COVID-19 shutdown than those on the highest salaries. So, isn't it true, First Minister, that a harsher lockdown and a longer lockdown means that Wales will go backwards and those at the lowest levels of income in society are going to be the ones who suffer most? So, considering that the economic effects of the lockdown will hit the poorest hardest, how do you justify keeping Wales in lockdown whilst the rest of the United Kingdom opens up?

Mark Drakeford AC: Well, Llywydd, while I don't disagree with some of the Member's diagnosis, I very much disagree with his description of the recipe. He is right to say that coronavirus has a disproportionate impact on some members of our society, and those most disadvantaged to begin with feel the impact of this disease most significantly. The best way to help them is to make sure that the Welsh economy has a smooth and reliable recovery from coronavirus—that we don't have a recovery in which we open up too much too soon and then see a clampdown being needed again so the economy goes into reverse.
So, he offers us a sort of Texas approach to coronavirus, in which you lift the lockdown rapidly, you let all sorts of things resume again because you think that's right for the economy, and, lo and behold, the virus is off circulating again everywhere and you have to clamp down all over again. That is what we're avoiding here in Wales in the way that we are doing things. We are reopening our economy, we are doing it step by step, we are monitoring it as we go, we are doing our best to make sure that we can have confidence in our economy and that we will not find ourselves in a position of having to put all of that into reverse, because nothing could be worse for the economy or for those people who rely on it.

Russell George AC: First Minister, last week, the UK Government introduced the Business and Planning Bill in Parliament, which included a set of urgent measures to help businesses adjust to new ways of working to respond to the current pandemic. The hospitality industry in Wales have said that it needs a clear road map for reopening and Government support to get back on its feet. So, I think it certainly will be important that, in the short term, any obstacles are removed that could get in the way, including easing restrictions in the planning and licensing system in particular. As I understand it, the planning Bill has a mix of measures, both reserved and devolved areas. How is the Welsh Government going to respond to the devolved areas and how is any legislation in particular going to support the hospitality sector?

Mark Drakeford AC: Well, Llywydd, we've been in direct discussions with the hospitality sector over the last week and a half, looking for ways in which we might be able to reopen outdoor hospitality here in Wales with the necessary mitigating measures, and I'm grateful to the sector for all the ideas that they have contributed, for the work that they are doing with us to draw up guidance for the sector, in the hope that we will be able to do that alongside them. It has to be done in a way that puts the health of the public first, and that's what we're working on, and taking advice from our chief medical officer, of course, in the process.
The legislation in the House of Commons is, as Russell George said, a mixture of devolved and non-devolved. On the non-devolved side, it will passport licences that public houses, for example, have to serve alcohol indoors, will passport that to allow them to serve it outdoors. Other aspects will fall to legislation that is in the hands of the Senedd and we will think carefully about what we need to do there.
So, for example, to give the Member an idea of the complexity, which I'm sure he's alert to in any case, many cafes and restaurants may look to be able to operate outside on the pavement in front of their properties. We have to balance that with the rights of other users: disabled people, wheelchair users, people who are partially sighted—people who rely on being able to use pavements in a way that is unimpeded and don't cause difficulties to them. So, there is more than one interest to think of, and the way that we will do it in Wales is to work with the sector to find a proper balance between those things so we can do the things that are necessary to allow that sector to open up again, but we don't do it at the expense of rights that others have to lead their lives in ways that allow them to go about their lawful business unimpeded.

David Rees AC: First Minister, Jack Sargeant has already highlighted the crisis in the aviation sector, which is a major sector within the Welsh economy, and another sector in the Welsh economy is the steel industry, which is also facing very serious challenges. Last week, the UK Government seemed to have briefed the Financial Times that a request for funding from Tata would be approved, but the UK Government has yet to actually announce any such approval, and, as such, the industry doesn't know where it stands. Steelworkers and their families deserve better; they deserve certainty. Will you continue to pressurise the UK Government to actually approve this request for funding, because the customers of steel have basically disappeared because of the coronavirus? We need the industry to keep on going. It is critical to the Welsh economy and we need that support from the UK Government.

Mark Drakeford AC: Llywydd, I completely agree with David Rees. I read that extended article in the Financial Times. It was clearly briefed by Whitehall sources, and it very directly implied that we were just about to get an announcement from the UK Government of dedicated support for the steel industry, an industry that this country will need when coronavirus is over, and the scale of support that is needed for that industry has to come from the UK Government. We continue to play our part with Tata directly in supporting skills and apprenticeships and with some localised environmental investment to assist the company, but the scale of support that the industry needs in a global crisis has to come from the UK Government. Having indicated that that help was just on its way, it's very disappointing that it hasn't materialised now for several days. The Chancellor is to make his announcement on support for the economy next week. We will be pressing the UK Government all the way through to make sure that support for the steel industry—a strategically important industry for the whole of the United Kingdom—is at the forefront of his thoughts in putting that package together.

Infrastructure Projects

John Griffiths AC: 4. How will the Welsh Government use infrastructure projects to reinvigorate the Welsh economy in light of COVID-19? OQ55369

Mark Drakeford AC: I thank John Griffiths for that, Llywydd. The Welsh Government will use all opportunities, from small and local infrastructure projects to major national investments, to create jobs and to rebuild our economy through the pursuit of economic, social and environmental justice.

John Griffiths AC: First Minister, we know the pandemic has disproportionately affected the most vulnerable in our society, reinforcing existing inequalities of class, ethnicity, disability and gender. We now face an economic crisis and the prospect of further inequality and harm to those least able to withstand it. Infrastructure projects will be an important part of regenerating our economy and could also be part of addressing these social injustice imperatives. So, will contracts include clauses, requirements and fair work provision to ensure these capital projects offer opportunities, training and jobs for those most in need, and help build back better for everyone in Wales?

Mark Drakeford AC: I thank John Griffiths for that important set of remarks and his question, Llywydd. He's right, of course, to point to the way in which the COVID crisis has had disproportionate impacts on different sectors of our society. I was very pleased last week to receive the report from Professor Emmanuel Ogbonna on the socioeconomic context of the impact of the crisis on people of black, Asian and minority ethnic backgrounds. When we let contracts for our infrastructure work, we will, of course, draw on the principles of our economic contract, in which the investment that the Welsh public makes derives a benefit for the Welsh public beyond simply the jobs created. So, employment levels, training, apprenticeships, wider community benefits, all of that will be at the centre of the way in which we construct those contracts—very much part of the contract that we have struck for the completion of the Heads of the Valleys road; a major infrastructure project that we were able to move forward last week. But those principles will be applied more generally in order to make sure that those people who have been most adversely affected by the impact of coronavirushave a disproportionately greater benefit from the rebuilding of our economy.

Suzy Davies AC: First Minister, thank you for the response to John Griffiths there. Obviously, he represents a Newport constituency, where the M4 relief road could have been such a piece of major infrastructure. The alternatives to an M4 relief road I think are due to be presented to you shortly, and I imagine that you've already been given a rough indication of the cost of those alternatives. What is the range of those rough costs, and what have you done to secure any necessary Treasury support, having refused that support when, of course, you ditched the plan for the M4 relief road?

Mark Drakeford AC: Well, the last part of that question is complete nonsense, Llywydd. What does the Member mean? There was no offer of support that was turned down, and I really think that is just absurd, and I have no idea where the Member got it from. I don't have any rough costs from their commission, because I'm waiting for their report. The work on the first set of recommendations that the commission made began earlier this week, and they are fully funded by the Welsh Government. I always said, Llywydd, that the original plan for the M4 relief road was costed at a billion pounds, and that the commission has first call on that in coming forward with alternative proposals so that we can deal with the very real issues there have been around Newport, but do it in a way that does not bring with it the enormous environmental disbenefits that the relief road would have brought.

Support for Businesses

Hefin David AC: 5. Will the First Minister provide an update on Welsh Government support for businesses affected by COVID-19? OQ55386

Mark Drakeford AC: I thank the Member for that. Our £1.7 billion-worth package of support means Welsh businesses have access to the most generous help anywhere in the United Kingdom. Over 2,700 Caerphilly-based companies alone have benefited from business rate relief. The second phase of the economic resilience fund opened on Monday of this week.

Hefin David AC: Diolch, First Minister. Can I say, first of all, it's such a relief that this is the last week we'll have this wholly unsatisfactory way of doing business, and it'll be good to be back in a hybrid model next week, and I thank the Llywydd for helping with that decision?
Many businesses and charitable organisations in Caerphilly have been supported by Welsh Government in the form of grants and rate relief, and it's helped to plug the gap left by UK Government support. I welcome the announcement last week of Government support for those start-up firms who only began trading in 2019, meaning that they would have missed out on the UK Government's self-employment income support scheme. But I am aware of some small businesses in particular who are continuing to miss out. I was contacted by a constituent who runs a hairdressers in Bargoed. Her business is unable to receive any support because she's a sole trader and doesn't have to be VAT registered, which she isn't. This is unfair as similar businesses who are limited companies don't have to be VAT registered, nor can she claim any form of rate relief as she's only a tenant at her premises. As a result, she can no longer afford to pay her staff or her overheads. What more can the First Minister and the Welsh Government do to support her and other small businesses like hers who are rooted in our Valleys communities?

Mark Drakeford AC: Well, Llywydd, I thank Hefin David for what he said about the new £5 million grant supporting start-up businesses. We anticipate it will support up to 2,000 businesses in Wales, and it is an example of filling a gap in the schemes that the UK Government has devised. I always take this opportunity to recognise the help that the UK Government has provided, and to say that it is inevitable, in very large, very rapidly constructed schemes, that there will be some blunt edges and gaps that will emerge, and our £500 million economic resilience fund has always been aimed at finding the gaps in the schemes that the UK Government has put in place and then to try to fill them here in Wales. We aren't able to fill every gap; it's just not possible within the scope of what we have. But, we continue to review the economic resilience fund to see whether we can do more through it. Where there are examples where the structure of the help that is available creates gaps that firms fall through, then we're always open to hearing about that and to see if there are further ways in which we can assist.

Leanne Wood. You need to unmute yourself, Leanne Wood.

Leanne Wood AC: Okay. Sorry, I thought I had. I want to ask about support for the arts. The arts are vitally important for our culture, for our language, and potentially for tourism as well. Many people working in the arts are freelancers or gig economy workers who may—or probably haven't had any support from the Government so far. Large audience events are unlikely to be safe for people in the old way soon, and so, what happens to the firm of public address system operators—four of them who work in my constituency—who are unable to have any work at the moment?
Would you be prepared to consider an idea that has been proposed to the Scottish Government for a national arts force, which would see the arts be a part of well-being and recovery, where musicians and artists can go into schools, hospitals and care homes, and even provide online courses? Imagine the PA firm being able to teach sound engineering skills to young people in the Rhondda throughout the summer holidays. Would you be prepared to look at that recommendation that has gone to the Scottish Government and consider a similar scheme to operate in Wales? We can't rely on the Westminster Government to plug this gap; it's something that the Welsh Government needs to do, and it needs to do it urgently.

Mark Drakeford AC: Llywydd, I thank Leanne Wood for that. She'll know that my colleague Dafydd Elis-Thomas has published a lengthy written statement this week on support for the arts here in Wales. I'm very happy to look at the idea that Leanne Wood has set out. She's sounding quite like Franklin Delano Roosevelt in that, and a great deal more convincingly than others who have made claims to that mantle, if I may say so. So, we will, by all means, look at it.
This is another example, actually, Llywydd, of where the UK Government has constantly implied that it is on the brink of publishing a support package for a sector, just as it did for steel last week. So, for many weeks, it has trailed an imminent announcement about a package of support for the arts. That support package needs to come forward, and if it did, it would materially strengthen our ability to put into practice the sort of scheme that Leanne Wood has talked about this morning.

Educational Attainment

Mandy Jones AC: 6. What assessment has the First Minister made of the effect of lockdown on educational attainment in North Wales? OQ55364

Mark Drakeford AC: Llywydd, no research of which I am aware suggests that the effect of lockdown on education attainment has varied by geography. Our focus has been on vulnerable or disadvantaged learners, wherever they live in Wales.

Mandy Jones AC: Thank you. First Minister, a major study of home schooling during lockdown by University College London's Institute of Education has highlighted some worrying findings about how children's education in Wales may be suffering. They suggest that, on your watch, children in Wales are doing less schoolwork and receiving less online education than their peers across the rest of the UK while schools have been shut down. Will your Government commission an inquiry to look at why and how children in Wales appear to have been let down so badly by those entrusted with their education?

Mark Drakeford AC: Well, Llywydd, I certainly wouldn't be prepared to do that on the back of one study that I've not myself had any opportunity to look at. I think that there have been some outstanding examples in schools across Wales of the way in which teachers have been able to respond to the challenges of coronavirus and providing an education in the context that it has created. What we are now determined to do is to create a set of national expectations that mean that all schools in Wales in the autumn are able to draw on the experience of the very best to make sure that there are minimum attendance standards in school, that there are standards for frequency of contact when not in school and that quality of work assessment, marking and feedback standards are common across the whole of Wales.
We will deploy Estyn inspectors from September to make sure that good practice is spread throughout the educational system in Wales, to make sure that the very best, which has been, I think, outstanding where it has been on offer, is on offer more broadly to all children in Wales.

Thank you, First Minister.

2. Business Statement and Announcement

The next item is the business statement and announcement, and I call on the Trefnydd to make that statement—Rebecca Evans.

Rebecca Evans AC: Diolch, Llywydd. There are no changes to today's agenda. Draft business for the next three sitting weeks is set out on the business statement and announcement, which can be found amongst the meeting papers available to Members electronically.

Russell George AC: Trefnydd, I would be grateful if you could investigate the issue of written oral questions that have not been answered, dating back, in my case, as far as 2016, from Welsh Government Ministers. I know that this is an issue that has been raised a number of times in this Chamber, but I do feel now that we need to get to the bottom of why written questions are simply not answered by Welsh Government Ministers. Can you please investigate? According to the Table Office, some of my questions haven't been answered dating back as far as 2016. I'd be grateful if you could investigate this, business manager, with the Table Office and provide a statement to Members of this Senedd with an explanation of why this has occurred.

Rebecca Evans AC: I'll certainly investigate why those responses haven't arrived, certainly going back to such a date. If you let me have the numbers that would be helpful, otherwise I can liaise directly with the Table Office to get that information for you.FootnoteLink

Information further to Plenary

Leanne Wood. You need to unmute yourself again, Leanne Wood.

Leanne Wood AC: I don't have a question, Llywydd.

Oh, that's okay. Mick Antoniw.

Mick Antoniw AC: I wonder if it would be possible to have a Government time debate on the planning system in Wales, and in particular with regard to the role of the Planning Inspectorate. It's becoming increasingly clear to me and many other Assembly Members that there are real question marks about the fitness for purpose of the Planning Inspectorate and whether we should now be moving towards a system whereby local decisions by councils on planning matters should be prioritised to a far higher degree, rather than the way in which it seems to happen at the moment with the way in which the Planning Inspectorate seems to override local interest. It seems to me that it's an important and long-overdue debate, and I wonder if Government can make time for such a debate.

Rebecca Evans AC: I thank Mick Antoniw for that suggestion. Over the summer, I'll be having some discussions with colleagues about the debates that they would wish to bring forward, and I know that they'll be considering the requests that colleagues bring forward today, and have done in recent times as well, in terms of setting out that agenda of Government business for the next term, which I hope will, to a degree, allow us to return to more usual and more normal kinds of tabling of business. But, obviously, we will see where we are in the autumn term.

Caroline Jones AC: Trefnydd, will you ask the Minister for economy to come forward with a statement to confirm who exactly is entitled to receive a business support package from the economic recovery fund during the pandemic? There is still much confusion as to who qualifies, as in the case of my constituent who has three businesses, is paying three lots of tax for them, but because they're run from the same address, he has been given assistance for only one business, saying that he does not qualify. So, before his other two businesses, employing several people, are beyond repair, what financial assurance can my constituent be afforded?

Rebecca Evans AC: I thank Caroline Jones for raising this. I do think that the criteria for the grants related to non-domestic rates are quite clear, in the sense that they are set out on the Business Wales website. The situation you describe certainly sounds as if it would only be the one business that would be eligible for the business rate related grant, because those grants are directly related to those businesses that are paying the non-domestic rates.
That said, other businesses are being asked to look to the economic resilience fund, which opened for phase 2 earlier on this week, to seek support for businesses that aren't eligible for the non-domestic relief-related grants. So, we've tried to put in support, as the First Minister's said, in order to plug those gaps as far as is possible.

Andrew RT Davies AC: Leader of the house, could I have two statements, if possible? I appreciate that they'll be done in a written form. One in relation to the Government missing its deadline for farm payments yesterday—30 June itself is the deadline to make all farm payments other than complex payments. I'm led to believe that the Government has missed that deadline and will be subject to EU fines for missing the deadline. We now need to understand what the new timeline will be for farm businesses to receive this money, especially with the COVID crisis impacting on many farm businesses, and the flow of cash into those businesses.
And secondly, the Auditor General for Wales's report yesterday touched on a very pertinent issue that has been plaguing the rural development plan and its delivery right the way through its lifetime since 2014. The auditor general did a report in 2018 that highlighted the same problems that were highlighted by the report yesterday. And, sadly, it does seem as if much of this money goes to favoured companies, individuals or Government agencies themselves, as the auditor general highlights.It is vitally important that the Minister responds to this report in a timely manner and that Members see that response so that, with the remaining time for the rural development plan, we can have confidence that the remaining money will not be frittered away and will be used to best effect.

Rebecca Evans AC: I will certainly make sure that the Minister is aware of your request for a statement and clarity on farm payments, particularly in the timing of those payments within this financial year.
On the second issue that you raise about the Wales Audit Office report, obviously, we're grateful for the work that was done there, and we'll ensure that officials respond to them in due course. I do know that officials will need to provide evidence to the Public Accounts Committee in respect of the approach taken to the assessment of value for money through the RDP, and I think that that is a proper forum for those issues to be discussed and explored.
As part of our ongoing review of the delivery of the RDP, officials had already identified the issues described by Audit Wales and have taken action to remedy them. The report's conclusions provide some helpful guidance to ensure that all the necessary actions have been implemented. And I can add that officials have reviewed the projects concerned to ensure that they do, in practice, deliver value for money, and, where appropriate, have taken action to ensure that we do achieve value for money, including retendering some of those projects. So, I hope that that's helpful as an interim update before officials give evidence to the Public Accounts Committee.

Finally, Darren Millar.

Darren Millar AC: Diolch, Llywydd. Trefnydd, can I call for a Welsh Government statement on when driving lessons, theory tests and practical tests will be able to recommence in Wales? There are a lot of people across the country, particularly young people, who were in the middle of taking their driving lessons and have been unable to complete their courses. In addition to that, there are those who've passed their theory tests, and the validity of those can expire before they're able to take the actual practical driving test, because of the coronavirus shutdown. And, of course, there are many driving schools with instructors on the English side of the border who are losing out to business to driving schools on the other side of the Welsh border, simply because of the current situation.
The UK Government has announced that it's going to be recommencing these things on 4 July, and I think it would be great if we could get to a situation in Wales where we were able to announce the same as soon as possible.

Rebecca Evans AC: Well, a really wide range of circumstances are considered throughout our three-weekly rolling review of the regulations, and, clearly, we are considering many different types of employment and employment circumstances. So, obviously, there are circumstances across Wales—I've had guitar teachers who teach at home, for example, wanting to know what the rules mean for them. So, I know that we do need to provide as much clarity as we can, which we're seeking to do through our three-weekly reviews, but I will make sure that I express your concerns particularly about driving instructors and people undertaking driving lessons, with a view to taking tests, in those discussions that we'll be continuing to have this week.

I thank the Trefnydd.

3. Questions to the Counsel General and Minister for European Transition (in respect of his 'law officer' responsibilities

The next item isquestions to the Counsel General in respect of his law officer responsibilities, and the first question is from Helen Mary Jones.

The Impact of COVID-19 on Human Rights

Helen Mary Jones AC: 1. What legal advice has the Counsel General provided to the Welsh Government on the impact of the Covid-19 crisis on human rights in Wales? OQ55380

Jeremy Miles AC: The Welsh Government is committed to upholding human rights, a responsibility that it takes very seriously. The COVID crisis has not diminished that commitment. Those rights are as important now as at any time in the past. The Welsh Government continues to ensure the protection of those rights throughout the management of the COVID-19 crisis.

Helen Mary Jones AC: I'm grateful to the Counsel General for his response and for his reassurances. He will, of course, as I'm sure we all are, be aware that this crisis has impacted more seriously on some sections of the population than others. We know, for example, about the economic impact on women and the longer term impact of having to do increased domestic duties at the same time as working from home, and, of course, the impact of the virus on black people and people of colour.
Is the Counsel General confident that the advice that he's been able to provide has ensured that the Welsh Government has exercised its public sector equality duty in how it has responded? Anecdotally, it would be my impression that certainly efforts have been done to do so, but it is, I'm sure he would agree with me, very important that as we move out of the crisis we ensure that these disproportionate impacts on already vulnerable sections of our community are built into our plans to rebuild and to develop particularly the economy.

Jeremy Miles AC: Well, I couldn't agree more with the Member than in her point acknowledging the disproportionate impact on certain groups in our community of COVID. She identified a number of communities that have been particularly adversely affected. And I just want to associate myself with the point that the First Minister made in answers to his questions earlier, which is to say that our focus very much is on ensuring that groups that have been disproportionately adversely affected are given additional support in the process of recovery from COVID.
Just on the point in relation specifically to the public sector equality duty, those assessments have been made. She will perhaps have noted, and if she hasn't, I'll draw her attention to, the document that we published on Monday of this week that describes the impact assessments that have been undertaken across the piece in relation to the various judgments that we've had to make as a Government in relation to COVID-19. She will understand, and I hope Members generally will understand, that the circumstances at the outset of the process in which decisions were being made at very great urgency will have meant that we had to take a slightly different approach to the immediate judgments at the start. But I refer her and other Members to that document, which I hope gives a clear explanation of the approach we've taken throughout to assessing impact, mindful of the fact that, as the First Minister has said himself, the equality lens is essential to the steps we are taking, in particular at the moment, in coming out of lockdown.

Jenny Rathbone AC: Counsel General, you'll be aware that one of the groups most affected by the lockdown has been children, and in light of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, articles 28 and 29, I just wondered what advice you're giving on how we're going to ensure that all children are going to be able to get an education going forward in September.

Jeremy Miles AC: I thank Jenny Rathbone for that question. The decision to increase operations in schools from 29 June was guided, really, by an approach based on equality of access. All learners have a right to education and to be supported in that learning, as is clear from the question that she puts to me, and the phased approach aims to mitigate the adverse impact on learners caused by COVID-19. As a Government, we remain completely committed to protecting the rights of children as set out in the convention to which she refers, and we're obviously mindful of our obligations in relation to children under the Rights of Children and Young Persons (Wales) Measure 2011 as well. So, I want to reassure the Member that those considerations remain at the forefront of our thinking in terms of the return of operations to school and more broadly, and also to remind her and others of the work that we did to consult with children and young people in relation to the impact of coronavirus on their lives, which was itself a reflection of the obligations on us under article 12, I think it is, of the convention, which gives the right to a voice, as it were, to children and young people.

Lynne Neagle AC: Jenny Rathbone makes a very important point about children's right to an education, which is enshrined not just in the UNCRC, but in our own children's rights Measure. I know, Minister, that you've met with the UNCRC monitoring group during the pandemic, and one of the concerns I've had is that, whenever I've tabled questions asking how children's rights are being considered in the decisions taken in lockdown, there is very little evidence of Government being able to show their workings in this area. What assurances can you give that, going forward, you will ensure that the appropriate child rights impact assessment and other considerations relating to children's rights are actually prioritised, so that we can genuinely put children who have suffered so much in this pandemic at the centre of our decision making? Diolch.

Jeremy Miles AC: I thank Lynne Neagle for that question. I can give her that assurance, that those priorities and principles remain fundamental to our approach. I know that Julie Morgan wrote to Lynne Neagle in her capacity as the Chair of the Children, Young People and Education Committee earlier last month, and described the work in relation to education and childcare settings around impact assessments to understand fully the impact on children of the decisions being taken in that area. I hope that she will also have been able to see the document published on Monday, which gives a little more information about some of those considerations, but I absolutely want to give her the reassurance that those considerations are fundamental to the decisions that we are taking, and, again, were one of the key issues relating to our prioritising the ability of children to start returning to school at the start of this week.

Mental Health Support

Janet Finch-Saunders AC: 2. What legal advice has the Counsel General given to the Welsh Government in relation to improving children’s access to mental health support in Wales? OQ55373

Jeremy Miles AC: Children's access to mental health support is a key priority in the Government's 'Together for Mental Health' delivery plan, and particularly so during COVID-19. In addition to pre-existing children's mental health services, in response to COVID, we've given additional funding for online mental health toolkits via Hwb and advice-line services for children.

Janet Finch-Saunders AC: Thank you. Accessing support for childhood mental health issues should be a simple and smooth process. However, it has been found that only 43 per cent of children and young people in Wales would be confident seeking help from a mental health team, and 39 per cent from school counselling. Regional partnership boards, of course, are required by law to prioritise the integration of services for children with complex needs. However, we now know that two health boards have recently disputed the responsibility for the health needs of a young person, and that a child was kept in a mental health facility for weeks, despite having no mental health diagnosis. Will you investigate whether regional partnership boards have been rightly prioritising services for children, and if there is any such failure to have done so, has this seen a breach of article 24, that is the right to the best possible healthcare for children?

Jeremy Miles AC: I thank Janet Finch-Saunders for that supplementary question, some of which takes me into areas that are the responsibility of the Minister for health, principally, so I'll make sure that he is aware of the question that she has asked. In relation to the question on convention rights, of course, that is a question that remains continuously in the forefront of our reflections as a Government. But, as I say, in relation to the policy points that she has raised in her question, I'll make sure the Minister for health has heard her question.

Inter-governmental Structures

Huw Irranca-Davies AC: 3. What legal representations has the Counsel General made on behalf of the Welsh Government regarding inter-governmental structures within the UK? OQ55360

Jeremy Miles AC: I make frequent representations on behalf of the Welsh Government on inter-governmental relations and the structures required to support co-operation and co-ordination among UK Governments. Effective inter-governmental working has never been more important as we deal with the COVID-19 pandemic and as we approach, at the same time, the end of the European transition period.

Huw Irranca-Davies AC: Thank you, Minister. In your role, you will, of course, have an eye to the creaking infrastructure of inter-governmental structures across the UK. It was being tested before COVID-19, it was being tested before the EU withdrawal process and was, indeed, being tested year after year, as the people of Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, and the great metropolitan city regions of England grew more muscular and gained more powers and authority so that decisions are taken at the right level and as close to people as possible. So, Counsel General, what hope do you have that the creaking inter-governmental constitutional apparatus of the UK, based on centuries-old structures that have struggled, frankly, to keep up with the increasing pace of devolution and principles of subsidiarity, can be made good to reflect the powers and strengths of devolved Governments, of this Senedd and of the people of Wales?

Jeremy Miles AC: I thank Huw Irranca-Davies for that question. Whether it's in 'Brexit and Devolution' or more latterly in 'Reforming our Union', we as a Government have sought consistently to be constructive advocates for a series of reforms for a better functioning union that gives full voice to the democratic legitimacy of the Senedd and the Welsh Government here in Wales, and establishes inter-governmental relations on the basis of equality of participation and parity of esteem. The arrangements we have at the moment are very far from meeting those tests, which we feel are the right tests for Wales.
As you yourself say, Huw, in relation to the process of engaging across the UK on European exit, there have been many, many examples of the shortcomings in those relationships and those structures. I think most recently—you asked for information about representations—I wrote to Michael Gove asking, effectively, for a reboot of the engagement in relation to EU exit. We still hope for progress in relation to the inter-governmental review, which is the fundamental review of Government relations across the board. I was hoping that we would have made more progress in the last few weeks since the Joint Ministerial Committee (EU Negotiations) in May than we have been able to do. The Dunlop review remains unpublished, on the UK Government's part, and I'm sure we would all share a wish for that to be published.
I think most recently, the inter-governmental workings in relation to COVID have been instructive in this sense. At the start of the process, clearly, COBRA was the forum in which decisions were made, but at no point did anyone reach for the JMC structures as a means of engaging on an ongoing basis. And I think that will tell us how, in truth, all Governments in all parts of the UK regard those structures as not fit for purpose and in need of pretty fundamental reform.

Dai Lloyd AC: In addition to what you've just said, Minister, there are a number of examples over the past few weeks of the UK Government ignoring the views that you as Welsh Government have taken and have placed in correspondence—for example, extending the transition period and many other issues that you've just mentioned. So, would you agree that your stance of being content within the union and continuing to be ignored within that—would you agree that that doesn't meet the needs of the people of Wales?

Jeremy Miles AC: Well, with all due respect, those aren't the two options. The choice is that we have a form of a union where the voice and the views of the people of Wales, through the Senedd, are reflected appropriately in the relationship and the inter-governmental system. We're not saying that the current situation can't be improved—quite the contrary. We're not defending the status quo, but making a constructive effort to put an alternative system in place across the United Kingdom.
The time is well past where this became critical, and the Welsh Government on all occasions has taken a constructive and co-operative stance, and described the system that we would want to see in the interests of Wales. There are demands now—given our specific experience in the process of exiting the European Union, and also in terms of the inter-governmental structures in the context of COVID, this now has to happen as a matter of urgency.

COVID-19 Regulations

Siân Gwenllian AC: 4. What legal advice has the Counsel General provided on the effect of Covid-19 regulations on the Welsh Government's ability to fulfil its policies? OQ55383

Jeremy Miles AC: The Welsh Government have made a number of regulations in response to the pandemic pursuant to the Coronavirus Act 2020 and Public Health (Control of Disease) Act 1984. All of this legislation has been made following detailed consideration of policy, legal and appropriate scientific and expert public health advice to enable us to respond to these extraordinary circumstances that we faced in Wales.

Siân Gwenllian AC: We know that some form of lockdown restrictions will remain in place for quite some time yet, perhaps even until next year. So, how does the Government intend to mitigate the impact of the regulations on the creative industries and the arts? And what role will this sector play in your post-COVID recovery framework? After all, the arts are crucial, as they always are in times of crisis, as we try to understand and express what we are going through. Will your Government follow the example of nations such as Scotland and New Zealand and invest in the sector as part of your recovery work? And will you make progress, without awaiting any additional funding that may or may not come from Westminster, in announcing that the arts are a key part of your post-COVID recovery plan?

Jeremy Miles AC: I thank Siân Gwenllian for that question, and, in that question, you highlight one of the very important elements in the COVID context— there's an economic element, there's a health impact, of course, and there's a broader social impact too, but the arts, as you describe, have a very important role in bringing us through this period. The sector has suffered a substantial detrimental effect over the past few months, and, as you said in your question, that's likely to go on for some time.
I will echo what the First Minister said in response to questions earlier and the question from Leanne Wood about our efforts to do what we can to support this sector, and what Dafydd Elis-Thomas has stated recently is a key part of that. I would like to live in a world where we wouldn't have to consider what happens in Westminster in terms of funding, but, unfortunately, that is a core element of the decisions that we make, in terms of the resources available to us. But, as the First Minister said in response to questions earlier, we would want to see the role of the sector secured for the future in response to COVID.

Human Rights Legislation

Janet Finch-Saunders AC: 5. What legal advice has the Counsel General given to the Welsh Government on whether its response to Covid-19 is in accordance with human rights legislation? OQ55372

Jeremy Miles AC: The Welsh Government takes its obligations under human rights legislation very seriously. It's clear that there are positive obligations to act, as well as an obligation not to interfere with human rights without clear justification. European Convention on Human Rights implications continue to form part of the Government's considerations in the context of our response to COVID-19.

Janet Finch-Saunders AC: Thank you. Now, despite the right to respect for private and family life, many individuals, friends and families are being kept apart here in Wales by the 5-mile rule. Despite the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion, places of worship were closed, even for private prayer. The Older People's Commissioner for Wales has raised concerns that older people's rights may not have been sufficiently protected, and the Children's Commissioner for Wales has written about how children and young people have seen changes to their ability to access human rights. Do you agree with me that an independent inquiry should be established urgently, so as to start considering the impact of Welsh Government decisions on adherence to human rights legislation in Wales during this COVID-19 pandemic? Thank you.

Jeremy Miles AC: I thank Janet Finch-Saunders for that supplementary. The first, rather obvious, point to make is that the 5-mile rule is not, in the way that she describes it, a rule. I just want to make it clear that it is a rule of thumb and guidance; I've somewhat lost track of the number of times that point has been made in the Siambr, but happy to make it again for the record, in case there's any misunderstanding.
On her broader point about human rights, I think it's important that we approach these questions with clear sightedness. Each of the decisions taken has been evaluated against, firstly, our obligations in this area, but also our commitment as a Government in this area. Each of the decisions taken has to pass a series of tests, that they are necessary, that they are proportionate, and are maintained under constant review. The task involved is to infringe and interfere with people's rights consistent only with that set of tests, and weighing against those rights the risks, which are obvious, to public health. I'm confident that that has been the process that the Government has followed across the piece in relation to each of those decisions, and I absolutely acknowledge the point that she's made in relation to the issues highlighted by commissioners. It is important that those issues are raised and that they are part of this debate and part of this discussion, because the fundamental commitment that we have as a Government to human rights, as I said earlier, is undiminished.
And so we welcome the opportunity to discuss those issues and to be scrutinised on those issues. And I would be content to put in the Senedd Library, Llywydd, a note that describes the decision-making process in relation to some of the restrictions that have engaged the legal tests that I've talked about, so that Members can understand perhaps more fully some of the judgments that are made along the way.

Women Against State Pension Inequality

Helen Mary Jones AC: 6. What recent discussions has the Counsel General had with other law officers regarding the legal steps being taken by the women against state pension inequality against the changes made to their pension entitlement by the UK Government? OQ55379

Jeremy Miles AC: The Welsh Government has repeatedly expressed concerns to the UK Government about women who've had their state pension age raised without effective or without sufficient notification. The matter will be considered by the Court of Appeal in July, and I'll carefully consider the judgment of the Court of Appeal when it's handed down.

Helen Mary Jones AC: I'm grateful to the Counsel General for his reply, and also for the Welsh Government's consistent and constructive approach to this very important matter. He refers to the ongoing legal action. Does he agree with me that the UK Government should now address this injustice and come forward with an appropriate redress scheme before further legal steps are taken? They have shown themselves willing to make very substantial investments in protecting our economy, and that is incredibly welcome. In the context of that ability and willingness to make that incredible investment, does he agree with me that it's time that they make a similar investment in addressing the injustice that the women born in the 1950s have faced, and does he also agree with me that, of course, there would be potentially an additional benefit to doing so, because it would enable some of those women to retire as they had planned to do, potentially releasing some roles in the workforce for workers who are not yet ready to retire?

Jeremy Miles AC: Well, I thank Helen Mary Jones for that further question, and, if I may say, for the constructive way in which she's engaged throughout on this question, as have other Members as well, of course. The case that she invites me to make is the case that we have been making as a Government to UK Government Ministers. I think I'm right in saying that the last letter that we wrote advocating this position didn't even get a reply, as it happens, but the contents of it will not have been new to the UK Government; we have consistently made the case for intervention on the grounds of equity in this question.
She links, I think, in a very important way the experience of the women who are affected with the experience of the last few months and the impact of coronavirus, which has been disproportionate on many of those women. Women are overrepresented in sectors that have been subject to lockdown, for example, and there will be women who are not able to work, but also not getting access to their pensions, who will feel a particular financial burden as a consequence of the confluence of those two things. And I do think that that puts a special obligation on the UK Government to act in these particular circumstances, and, along with her, I very much hope that they will do so.

The Thomas Commission

Alun Davies AC: 7. Will the Counsel General make a statement on the implementation of the recommendations of the Thomas Commission on Justice in Wales? OQ55377

Jeremy Miles AC: Well, responding to the coronavirus pandemic has, I'm afraid, inevitably affected the pace of work to implement the Thomas commission recommendations. We nevertheless continue to make progress, pursuing those recommendations within our areas of responsibility and continuing to make the case for change to the UK Government, which has committed to discussions both at ministerial and official level.

Alun Davies AC: Presiding Officer, I'm very pleased to hear that from the Counsel General, and to hear that the Welsh Government are at least seeking to make progress on this matter, in the most difficult of circumstances. But, of course, it is these most difficult of circumstances that demonstrate the necessity of moving quickly on this agenda. We have seen how the Welsh prison population has been the worst affected across these islands by COVID-19, that the current structures—although some people may believe this is an academic conversation—have real-life impacts on people, and people are suffering today, both within the current prison population, but also the wider population who've been through the criminal justice system, because of the failures of the system. The Thomas commission couldn't have been clearer that we require urgent change to this system to make it fit for purpose to serve the interests of people across the whole of this country. I hope that the Minister will be able to continue making this case, and I hope he and other Ministers will also be able to demonstrate the impact of the failure of the UK Government to recognise these matters on people in the middle of this pandemic crisis.

Jeremy Miles AC: I thank Alun Davies for the question. There have been aspects of progress; I want to reassure him in relation to that. So, the Civil Procedure Rule Committee have recently agreed to make it compulsory, for example, for cases against Welsh public bodies to be heard in Wales, where there was challenge to the lawfulness of their decisions. And I was also very pleased to see that the Solicitors Regulation Authority have committed now to make the solicitors qualifying examination qualification available in Welsh. Both of those are recommendations of the Thomas commission. Whilst important, I'm not suggesting they are the central recommendations, obviously, but just to demonstrate that, where progress has been possible, we have been pursuing that, together with our partners.
On the larger point that he makes in relation to what we have perhaps learnt in the last few weeks in particular about the impact of the nature of our devolution settlement in justice on outcomes, which is fundamentally the most important case to make, I think it does demonstrate the shortcomings of the current arrangements. And whereas public bodies in Wales have done their utmost, I think, and their level best, to work together in extraordinarily difficult circumstances, I do think those have been to some extent hampered in this space by the nature of our devolution settlement. And I made that point to the Lord Chancellor in a recent discussion with him; I know he also is focused on outcomes. And some of those practical points around the prison population in particular—that conversation that I had with him, together with the First Minister and the Chief Whip, also explored the establishment of the first residential women's centre in Wales, for example, so, hopefully, again, making practical progress in some of those areas. But I would certainly echo the larger point that he makes about what we've learnt about the devolution settlement in the last few weeks and months.

I thank the Counsel General.

4. Questions to the Minister for Finance and Trefnydd

The next item is questions to the Minister for Finance, and the first question is from Caroline Jones.

The Impact of COVID-19 on Local Taxation Policy

Caroline Jones AC: 1. What assessment has the Welsh Government made of the impact of Covid-19 on its local taxation policy? OQ55374

Rebecca Evans AC: We're working closely with local authorities to monitor the impact of COVID-19 on the income from local taxes. Our package of rates relief is providing £580 million of support to ratepayers during 2020-21, and our council tax reduction scheme provides guaranteed support to low-income households.

Caroline Jones AC: Thank you, Minister. Local authorities were already struggling financially pre-pandemic. Services were being cut, yet our constituents found their council tax bills skyrocketing. The coronavirus outbreak has placed an enormous strain on local authorities as they form the front line in the public defence against the pandemic. Councils across Wales have risen to the challenge of supplying food to the shielded, housing the homeless and tracing the sick. Council services will cost more than they did pre-pandemic, as the cost of mitigation measures have to be factored in. Minister, can you assure the people of Wales that the Welsh Government will fund the additional expense, that council taxes will not go up as a result, and that my constituents—many of whom are already struggling financially—will not have to foot the bill? Diolch.

Rebecca Evans AC: I thank Caroline Jones for raising this issue. Local government finance is particularly important during the COVID-19 crisis because they are very much, alongside their colleagues in health, on the front line in terms of supporting people and our communities. And that's one of the reasons why I've been able to recognise that pressure by providing over £180 million thus far to the local government hardship fund. That fund allows local authorities across Wales to draw down funding to support them, for example, in meeting the additional costs of providing social care, in terms of providing additional accommodation to help people who are rough-sleeping off the streets, and also to help them in their desire to support low-income families who are now eligible for free school meals.
Alongside that, we recognise that local authorities have also experienced a significant amount of lost income. In normal times, local authorities would be getting income from the leisure centres, the catering services they provide and from parking and so on. So, a significant amount of that £180 million is there to support local authorities with the income that they have lost this year as well. I'm pleased that we've been able to ensure that local authorities haven't had the kind of 10 years that local authorities across the border in England have had, which means they are better placed to face this crisis, but I absolutely recognise that they need to do it with Welsh Government as their partners.

Nick Ramsay AC: Caroline Jones has focused on the council tax aspect of the local taxation issue. If I can focus on the business rates side of things, the Welsh Conservatives have long called for a whole look at the structure of business rates in Wales and business rates support, and the possibility of taking businesses with a rateable value of less than £15,000 out of paying altogether.
Minister, I appreciate that at the moment it's a very careful balancing act that you've got to do, between making sure that local authorities have the right level of taxation and that businesses are supported. Can I ask, as we come out of the pandemic and come out of the lockdown, that you do look again at the way that business rates work in Wales, so that those businesses that need as much money as possible at the moment to invest in the future and to employ people will be able to do so? And I think that a look at the whole business rate regime and easing the burden on businesses is one way that you can do that.

Rebecca Evans AC: I'm really keen to explore what more we could do or what we could do differently, in fact, in the field of local government finance, and particularly of course non-domestic rates, but also council tax, because they are two pillars that support local government. That's one of the reasons why I commissioned a range of research that will help us understand what the options are for the future. So, we have Bangor University looking at the potential of a local land value tax and we published that report in March of this year. The Institute for Fiscal Studies has undertaken some research on council tax revaluation and reform, and that was published in April of this year. And then Policy in Practice has been doing work, looking at the council tax reduction scheme. There was an interim report published in January and we expect the final report to be published very shortly.And then another piece of work that we expect in September looks at local taxes based on income, so that would be quite a radical approach there.
So, I'm really keen that all of these pieces of research are there in the public domain—there for all parties and all interested parties to be considering ahead of the next Senedd elections, so that we consider what the way forward might be. I'm not interested in change for the sake of it, but I do recognise that there are significant improvements that we can continue to make to non-domestic rates and council tax.

Local Government Hardship Fund

Suzy Davies AC: 2. How will the Welsh Government distribute the £78 million earmarked as part of the local government hardship fund within the budget in order to help local authorities manage loss of income due to Covid-19? OQ55361

Rebecca Evans AC: The Minister for Housing and Local Government is currently working with the Welsh Local Government Association to determine the most appropriate basis for support. But it will be through a claims process.

Suzy Davies AC: Well, thank you very much for that answer, because I think I'm right in saying that, speaking generally, councils are reclaiming their COVID-related expenditure from you monthly in arrears. Can you say whether you've refused to cover any of the expenditure presented to you, even with that evidence? And have you got any steer yet about what kind of evidence you'll be seeking from councils to support claims of lost income as, presumably, it's not just extrapolations from previous years?

Rebecca Evans AC: I understand that there is a very rigorous process in place, as you'd expect, in terms of looking at those claims that are coming through from local government. The Minister for Housing and Local Government and her officials are leading on that, although my understanding is that some claims are rejected on the basis that they potentially are not directly COVID pressure related, or they are potentially lost income now, but income that could be recovered later in the year. So, we have to test all of these things really robustly, because we only have a very, very finite pot of money to be tackling the COVID crisis with and it's really important that we're able to do so in a really robust way and to evidence our decisions as well. Because I'm always really aware that, although we're taking decisions very quickly at the moment, we will need to, in time, account for all of those decisions, in terms of getting the best value for the public purse.

Questions Without Notice from Party Spokespeople

Questions now from the party spokespeople. Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Rhun ap Iorwerth.

Rhun ap Iorwerth AC: Diolch yn fawr iawn, Llywydd. Now, David Phillips, at the Institute for Fiscal Studies, has argued that the story of the fiscal response by devolved Governments during this pandemic will be one where the said Governments are hampered by limited reserves, constrained borrowing powers, as well as the funding coming to them from UK Government. Now, the Minister has indicated that she has been in discussions with UK Treasury regarding the relaxation of fiscal powers. Could she give us an update about when Welsh Government can expect to see some of that flexibility being introduced?

Rebecca Evans AC: Yes, I’d be happy to. I last discussed these specific issues with the Chief Secretary to the Treasury on Friday of last week. And he indicated that the summer economic statement will be forthcoming, and then we’ll have a further conversation after that in terms of the fiscal flexibilities that we’ve requested. And just to recap, for people who aren’t familiar with those flexibilities, we’re seeking an ability to draw down more from the Wales reserve, to borrow more, to remove the borrowing cap, and also to be able to switch capital to revenue. Some of that and how far we want to take things will depend, in large part, on the statement that the Chancellor makes next week, and we will have a better understanding of the funding that we can expect to take us through the rest of this financial year.

Rhun ap Iorwerth AC: Okay. Thank you for that response. To much fanfare yesterday, of course, the Prime Minister announced his build back better plan, an investment of £5 billion to be brought forward. Apart from that seeming an almost ridiculously small amount, given the scale of the challenge that we face, not just in Wales, but across the UK, it seems that not a single penny of that investment could be identified as coming to Wales. Now, as well as raising our collective voice, as a nation, to demand that that is changed, I think we have to be prepared also to say, ‘If they won’t do it for us, we’ll do what we can ourselves.’ And we need a rethink, I think, on so many levels: on the scale of investment we need in Wales and how to deliver it and how to prioritise it; on the fiscal flexibility we need; on reforming taxation even. So, is Government ready to begin or join us in that reform discussion right now, because the quicker we start looking for those innovative ways forward, the quicker we’re surely more likely to find them?

Rebecca Evans AC: Rhun ap Iorwerth is entirely correct that yesterday's announcement from the Prime Minister was a complete non-event, in the sense that there's not a single additional penny coming to Wales as a result of the statement yesterday, certainly not this year, and all that's happening is that funding is being reprofiled for future projects. So, there was nothing of interest or significance to us here in Wales. That said, we recognise how important capital spend is going to be in the recovery, which is why we're pulling together the programmes that we think will be, and which are really shovel ready in terms of being able to hit the ground as soon as we're able to now, as we move into that recovery phase.
Local government is also working really hard to identify shovel-ready projects right across Wales, so that we are able to get that geographical spread of investment, bearing in mind that some communities are going to be hit particularly hard by the economic fallout of the coronavirus as well. And, of course, we have our Wales infrastructure investment plan, which contains billions of pounds of potential investment as well, so that will be really important.
And finally, I should mention, of course, our plans for twenty-first century schools continue. Our plans in Wales would spend £2 billion over the next five years, and I think that that level of ambition just dwarfs what the Prime Minister announced yesterday for England.

Rhun ap Iorwerth AC: Again, thank you for that response. The one thing I would say: with previous infrastructure development plans that were in place, they really need to be consigned to history, given now the scale of our understanding of the challenge that we have, which is at a different level to what we had previously. It needs to be rebuilt.
I'd like to finally just look at, as businesses are gradually reopening, not all of them are able to move at the same pace as others. One support package that was a lifeline, of course, was the non-domestic rates grants. Will there be another round of NDR grants available for those businesses who are unable to reopen? And also, on tourism and hospitality in particular—facing a full year of little profit, even if some of them are able to open now—what discussions have you had with the economy Minister to make a financial support package available to those sectors and for the longer term as a matter of urgency?

Rebecca Evans AC: I'll be completely honest, and the level of what we are able to provide in terms of cash straight into the pockets of businesses here in Wales will depend, I think, in large part, on what our financial package looks like in Wales for the rest of the year. So, next Wednesday, we'll have a statement from the Chancellor, which will set out what we would expect to receive from the UK Government in revenue terms for the rest of the year, and I think that we will need to look at that, in terms of the recovery, but also alongside the ongoing pressures that we know we have in terms of dealing with the coronavirus crisis, which still hasn’t left us, despite the loosening of lockdown. So, I can't give any commitment to further grants today.
However, what I will say is that we recognise how important the coronavirus job retention scheme has been for particular sectors. Ken Skates and I wrote jointly to the Chancellor on that specific point, highlighting the need for continued support for specific sectors—so, giving tourism as an example—and also for those businesses who still can't open as a result of the lockdown or the restrictions that remain on particular kinds of businesses, and we'll continue to make those arguments.

Conservative spokesperson, Nick Ramsay.

Nick Ramsay AC: Diolch, Llywydd. Minister, the recent news about job losses at Airbus has demonstrated the need for support for Welsh businesses at this very difficult time, and that includes the UK Government's furloughing scheme and, of course, Welsh Government support. Now, out of the £500 million pledge for the economic resilience fund, it seems that less than half of that has been used so far. Could you tell us a little bit more about how these allocations are being made, exactly how much of that money has been spent, and how are you as finance Minister ensuring that allocations are building effective resilience in communities affected by closures and job losses?

Rebecca Evans AC: I think the example that Nick Ramsey has given in relation to the aerospace industry just demonstrates how our support for the economy in Wales has to be a team effort between the UK Government and Welsh Government. Some of these sectors and some of these industries and businesses are so huge and are so strategically important that it is important that the UK Government also steps up to the mark. We talked about Tata, of course, during First Minister's questions today. So, I think it is important to work together to support businesses, and for each of us to do our bit in that.
In terms of the economic resilience fund, we have only allocated a part of that so far, and that's important because we wanted to hold some of that back to help with the recovery. So, our focus in the short term has been shoring up businesses, helping them get through the immediate crisis, but obviously the focus has to turn to recovery and supporting businesses to grow and supporting businesses to develop.
We've also been really focused on filling those gaps, so, again, working to ensure that everything that we do doesn't replicate what's available elsewhere but augments it, and I think that the figure that the ONS has provided, which shows that more than 30 per cent of Welsh businesses have now received support from either the Welsh Government or the UK Government, as compared to 21 per cent in Scotland and 14 per cent in England, shows how important it is that the Welsh Government seeks to augment what the UK Government is able to do. So, they will have a really important role in terms of Airbus and other large employers.

Nick Ramsay AC: Thank you, Minister. I think you're exactly right to say that this is a two-pronged approach. It is important that, along with the UK Government efforts, we do see that support from the Welsh Government, such as from the economic resilience fund. So, if you can keep us updated on those allocations, that would be helpful.
You mentioned, as we move out of lockdown and rebuilding the economy, that that won't just involve protecting existing jobs in their entirety—I think we have to recognise that that's not going to be possible—and it won't involve simply returning to the old ways of working. It will also involve allocations of funding for upskilling our workforce so that it's fully prepared to meet the global challenges ahead. According to an Open University report published last November, skills shortages are costing Welsh businesses £350 million a year, with many trapped in low-skill traps, and I imagine that those figures are even worse now with the pandemic having taken its duration. How are you ensuring that the allocations made in the recent supplementary budget will be properly focused on rebuilding the economy, particularly a greener, more modern economy, so that we are not just trying to meet the challenges of the past, but we're making sure that Wales is at the forefront of meeting the challenges ahead?

Rebecca Evans AC: The supplementary budget was more of a response to the immediate pandemic, so it was responding to the acute issues that we were facing, particularly in health and social care and in local authorities, but also on the business side of things. So, I think that, moving forward, as Nick Ramsay says, the focus is very much on employability and skills. A piece of work has gone on across Welsh Government exploring what different departments can bring to the table in terms a new and reinvigorated approach to skills and employability—so, from education to health, and obviously I have a role in that in finance.
But what we do want to see next week from the Chancellor is the UK Government's approach to skills, because, again, we want to augment what's happening. So, if the UK Government takes an approach to support skills and employability through the skills agenda, through BEIS, then we'll receive a consequential and we can do some of our own things here, but if it's the case that the UK Government decides that undertaking this work is better done through the DWP, then we won't receive a consequential. So, we're holding back on our skills and employability plan in terms of saying more about it until we know whether or not the funding will be here for us to take all of the decisions or if we need to work with what the UK Government decides to do potentially through the DWP. But I'm really hoping that the economic statement next Wednesday will provide us with that level of clarity.

Nick Ramsay AC: Diolch. I'm clearly going to have a lot more questions for you after next Wednesday's economic statement—that's quite clear. Minister, finally from me today, and with my other hat on as Public Accounts Committee Chair, you'd expect me to ask you about the auditor general report that grants worth £53 million to boost the rural economy were made by the Welsh Government without officials ensuring sufficient checks to ensure value for money. Now, this is obviously something that Public Accounts Committee will be looking at in its own time, but I do think the initial indications that the Welsh Government couldn't show that they'd considered whether there was a successful outcome to the spending of the £25 million of grants in particular is concerning. What confidence can the public have and how can you preliminarily reassure the public that the programmes that I've mentioned and which we've discussed today, such as the economic resilience fund, projects to get the economy back on track, will themselves involve effective evaluation and monitoring of public money, so that at the moment, when money is tight, we can see the best outcome from every Welsh pound that is spent and the taxpayer will see value for money in terms of developing that newer, greener economy, meeting those challenges ahead that are so important for moving the Welsh economy forward?

Rebecca Evans AC: So, we're grateful to Audit Wales for the report to which you refer, and I know that officials will be coming to the Public Accounts Committee in respect of that report and the assessment there of value for money through the RDP, and I think that's the best place to have those detailed and forensic discussions. But it is important to recognise that, as part of our ongoing review of the delivery of the RDP, officials had already identified the issues described in the Audit Wales report and had taken action to remedy them. And, as the report makes clear, the issue of value for money wasn't tested in the appraisal of those projects, so the projects concerned were reviewed to ensure that they did deliver value for money, and, where appropriate, action was taken to ensure that they did achieve value for money, including retendering some of those projects. But of course, since then, as I say, we have identified those issues; we've learned.
So, new guidance has been issued to policy makers, called 'Value for Money in Challenging Times: Key Economic Principles', and that sets out those key economic principles that, if followed, can deliver good value for money. Also, a revised finance notice, 'Making the Most of Welsh Government Funds', was also published, and that provides policy colleagues with the advice that they need to ensure that there is a much greater focus on value for money. And work is also ongoing on developing a value-for-money module into the compulsory core finance training for Welsh Government senior civil servants and, into the future, the roll-out of equivalent training for executive band staff. So, we're ensuring that value for money is well understood and well practised by the civil service.

The Brexit Party spokesperson, Mark Reckless.

Mark Reckless AC: Will the finance Minister make a statement on her latest assessment of the amount of tax revenue that we will lose by having a longer and stricter lockdown in Wales than the UK Government has been applying in England, and could she clarify what level of transitional protection we have over revenues to the Welsh Treasury from land transaction tax and the Welsh rates of income tax, and also advise whether there is any risk that we could be caught by the 'no detriment' rule in terms of UK revenues from income tax raised in Wales if they are significantly affected by decisions her Government are taking to maintain lockdown?

Rebecca Evans AC: I thank Mark Reckless for those questions. I think it is possible to say two things. The first is that Welsh taxes will be affected by the coronavirus outbreak, but it is impossible to say at this point to what extent that will be and to what extent it will be different to that across the border in England. I think it's worth reflecting that we're not as out of step with what's happening in England as might be suggested. We are only a couple of weeks different in some respects to what's happening across the border, and already we see some areas of England going into local lockdowns. So, there'll be all kinds of different considerations that will play out in the period ahead and which will impact on taxes. But, overall, as Mark Reckless knows, we are protected from UK-wide economic shocks through the block grant adjustments, so I don't think that the impact on land transaction tax, for example, or landfill disposals tax will be of a significant order.

Mark Reckless AC: We all support the furlough, job retention scheme, at least as it has operated to date. Can I ask the finance Minister to clarify the Welsh Government's position on any potential continuance? The scheme was brought in initially for a few months to ensure people didn't lose jobs, remained in contact with their employer in that contractual relationship, so that the economy could quickly restart, hopefully with a v-shaped recovery. The First Minister earlier, though, I think in the context of Airbus in Broughton—. I see that Ryanair is being told that it shouldn't be flying out of Cardiff today, although I think because it uses only Boeing aircraft, perhaps that not's an issue. But, if the air industry is going to take many years to recover and demand is going to be greatly lower not for months, but for years, is it not inevitable that output of aircraft is going to fall sharply and remain lower for a long period? And in those circumstances, do we need to be looking at another purpose for the furlough scheme, and if there is any extension, are you suggesting that that should be to keep people in most affected industries furloughed for a period of years? Or do you recognise that for people in industries unfortunately affected very badly for a long period, or for at least some of those people, it may be better to retrain and take opportunities and look to develop their careers elsewhere if the impact is going to be so severe and so long term?

Rebecca Evans AC: I think what we want to avoid is a cliff edge for people. So, you'll have seen the statement that Ken Skates has put out in terms of aviation and the aerospace industry here in Wales and how important it is, and you'll have heard what I said to Nick Ramsay in terms of how important it is that Welsh Government and the UK Government work together. So, in terms of the job retention scheme, I do think that there is a case for industries that were particularly hard hit to receive support for longer, and actually aviation was one of those sectors, which, alongside tourism, Ken Skates and I both mentioned in our letter to the Chancellor. Two things need to happen at the same time: people need to be kept with the support that they need, but also new jobs need to be created and new opportunities need to be found for people, because, even under normal circumstances, in an average week we lose 2,000 jobs here in Wales but another 2,000 are created. So, we need to ensure that that pipeline of new jobs comes into line, and I'm really aware that, particularly in Airbus, for example, the individuals there are very highly skilled, and I think that we need to ensure that the kind of employment that we're able to offer in the future continues to be in high-skilled and well-paid roles.

Mental Health

Lynne Neagle AC: 3. How will the Minister ensure that the mental health implications of the COVID-19 pandemic are recognised in the Welsh Government's budget allocations? OQ55385

Rebecca Evans AC: Research tells us that the pandemic will affect many people's mental and emotional well-being. That's why we have announced a number of specific measures targeted at supporting mental health, including £5 million for mental health in schools and £3.5 million to enable health boards to respond to increased demand.

Lynne Neagle AC: Thank you, Minister. I welcome any funding for the mental health implications of the pandemic, but I do believe it is vital that those are additional allocations, and I was very concerned to see that £7 million had been removed from the mental health service improvement fund in the supplementary budget. Now, I'm sure all Members recognise that we have a very long way to go in Wales in delivering parity between mental and physical health. There have been two landmark reports in this Assembly: the Children, Young People and Education Committee's 'Mind over matter' report on children's mental health, and the health committee's 'Everybody's Business' report on suicide prevention. The loss of life to suicide remains a major public health emergency. What assurances can you offer, Minister, that you will continue to prioritise not just the response to the pandemic, but the very important service transformation that we want to see in adult and children's mental health in Wales? Thank you.

Rebecca Evans AC: I'm grateful to Lynne Neagle for raising this, and I completely agree with everything she said about the importance of service transformation happening as well as our initial and immediate response to the COVID-19 crisis. I just want to reassure that the £7 million that was removed from that particular line in the budget was done on the understanding that that was work that couldn't happen because of the COVID-19 crisis, or that was slowed down, and that was what was able to free up that funding in the first place. But, clearly, the provision of mental health services is going to be more important than ever given the pressures on people as a result of the crisis. So, I give you my reassurance and my word that I will continue to value mental health very highly in my discussions with colleagues.

Paul Davies AC: Minister, Mind Cymru has recently published a report into how the coronavirus pandemic has impacted our mental health, which shows that many people do not feel entitled to seek help and have difficulty accessing it when they do. Now, the report showed that one in three adults and more than one in four young people didn't access support during lockdown because they didn't think that they deserved that support.
Can you therefore tell us how much funding the Welsh Government has specifically made available during the pandemic to communicate to people across Wales about the importance of mental health, and to encourage them to seek support if they are struggling? And, what discussions have you had with the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding this matter in order to make sure that people who are in need of financial support receive the support that they actually need?

Rebecca Evans AC: I think that it's really important to recognise that there will be people experiencing mental ill health as a result of the coronavirus crisis who have potentially never experienced mental ill health before and don't necessarily know the services and support that are available to them, and potentially might not feel comfortable about talking about their mental ill health in the first place. So, the work that's already been going on with a wide variety, I have to say, of organisations continues and is really important. I know that the health Minister has been keen to explore within his budget how much more he can provide in terms of support for particular schemes.But, you asked about particularly focused highlighting of what support is available and how much has been provided to that. So, an additional £50,000 was provided for the mental health of unpaid carers, as an example, and that coincided with national carers week to ensure that carers were aware of the particular support that was available to them and targeted at them.
Other investment has been around increasing mental health in-patient capacity, recognising the challenges that there are during this period, and, of course, extending the mental health support scheme for doctors, which is now extended to 60,000 healthcare workers across Wales. They will have had that promoted to them to ensure that they are aware that that service is now available to them, given the pressures that people are facing in the healthcare sector particularly.

The Test, Track and Protect Strategy

Rhun ap Iorwerth AC: 4. What extra allocations will be available during the current budget round to support the tracking element of the test track and protect strategy? OQ55375

Rebecca Evans AC: In the first supplementary budget passed by the Senedd last week, we allocated more than an extra £400 million to the NHS, including £57 million to support the Welsh Government's test, trace and protect strategy.

Rhun ap Iorwerth AC: Thank you very much for that response. I am more concerned in terms of this question of the funding that I would like to see being allocated for local government specifically. We are very fortunate in Ynys Môn that the county was part of the early development work on the tracing system, and part of the national pilot at the end of May.
But, these are voluntary teams within the county doing the tracing work; they are staff from other departments that have been brought into the team. Clearly, that isn't sustainable; it won't be sustainable as the council seeks to return to business as usual. So, can I ask for an early statement on the funding that can be allocated clearly to local authorities, which will be additional, so that they can professionalise this and employ people specifically to do this work? Because, let's be honest, we will need these professional tracing teams in councils across Wales for many months to come.

Rebecca Evans AC: I think that one of the real strengths of our approach here in Wales has been those very locally based teams of people doing the tracing work. I can say that I've had a number of discussions with the health Minister and with officials over the last week, looking at what funding will be needed in order to increase the size of that workforce, what the core size should be, and how we can ensure that there is surge capacity for that workforce as well, and there will be additional funding as part of that. Yes, I will be happy to provide that statement as soon as the details are confirmed.

Additional Funding

Mike Hedges AC: 5. Will the Minister indicate the additional funding that is expected as a result of spending by the UK Government in England in areas devolved to Wales? OQ55346

Rebecca Evans AC: Measures announced by the UK Government since the budget are expected to result in consequentials for Wales of around £2.3 billion, some of which are as yet indicative. Welcome though this is, it's less than we have needed to meet the immediate needs generated by the COVID crisis.

Mike Hedges AC: Can I thank the Minister for that response? Some of us are suspicious of the way that the Treasury in Westminster distributes consequential funding to Wales, and what they include has a substantial effect on the Welsh budget. Will the Minister publish the amount of money to be provided, and the Treasury's calculation that produced the total for the consequential moneys provided to Wales—what we used to know as 'show your workings'?

Rebecca Evans AC: Yes, I'd be very happy to. So, thus far, we've published details of the additional funding in the first supplementary budget, but we do expect the Treasury to publish its block grant transparency tables very shortly, showing the detail of allocations across all three devolved nations. I think that those transparency tables are important in understanding the workings out, as Mike Hedges says. There might be further consequentials this year, and I'm hoping for some news on that in the July economic statement next week. Then, following that, of course, we'd expect a further block grant transparency table outlining any additional allocations as a result of that.

Supporting the Social Care Sector

Janet Finch-Saunders AC: 6. What additional allocations will be made available by the Welsh Government during the current budget round to support the social care sector? OQ55370

Rebecca Evans AC: Social care plays a vital role in supporting some of the most vulnerable people in Wales. This work is more important than ever. We have allocated £40 million to support the extra costs of adult social care services and are providing payments of £500 to front-line Welsh social care staff.

Janet Finch-Saunders AC: Thank you. I don't think it's wise to keep mentioning the £500, because that's actually scandalous—how that figure has actually materialised.
Now, the Welsh Government has confirmed extension of the adult social care element of the local authority hardship fund to cover the whole of June. Will you provide an extension for July and August to give certainty to our local authorities? Longer term assurances are needed also. An elderly mentally infirm home in Powys receives a weekly fee of £559, whereas, in Cardiff, the figure is £793.48. That's £12,192.96 more for every resident than in Powys over the course of the year. This variation across Wales is disgraceful. So, will you consider supporting an inquiry into this fee variation, and will you work with colleagues to see fairness in funding for homes across Wales? Diolch.

Rebecca Evans AC: Thank you very much for raising that. You'll be aware that there has been an inter-ministerial group on paying for social care that has been meeting over the past number of years now to consider the ways forward. We're very aware of those differentials in the payment that is received in different areas. Some of it is very difficult, I think, to explain. That work is still ongoing despite the crisis, because we recognise how important it is that we gather all of the evidence that's needed so that decisions can be made about the appropriate way to pay for care in future.
But, in terms of the response to the immediate crisis, again, I have earmarked additional funding for social care in respect of the additional pressures that local authorities are facing, and we're starting to get those figures in for the claims thus far. So, I'll be able to understand what the pressure might be over this month and the next months to get a better idea of what's required.

Future Welsh Budgets

Mandy Jones AC: 7. What assessment has the Minister made of the impact of Covid-19 on future Welsh budgets? OQ55355

Rebecca Evans AC: The pandemic is putting great pressure on our resources this year, and there are huge uncertainties about funding in future years. That's why, at last week's finance Ministers' quadrilateral, I pressed the Chief Secretary to announce how and when he will set spending plans for next year and beyond.

Mandy Jones AC: Thank you, Minister. As you know, eye-watering sums of money have come from the UK Government to help the Welsh economy during lockdown, as well as your own Government's repurposing and reimagining of existing budgets and funds. Anyone who manages a household budget can see that there will be a knock-on effect for future Welsh budgets and the services that they support. How deep will hard-working members of the Welsh public need to dig in terms of increased income tax in the next Senedd term? Thank you.

Rebecca Evans AC: Well, we've been very clear that we wouldn't increase Welsh rates of income tax over this entire Assembly term, and we stuck to that. But I do think it's a case for all parties, really, to set out what their intentions would be for Welsh rates of income tax ahead of the next Senedd elections so that members of the public can decide what they feel is right for them.

Business Rates Relief Grants

Russell George AC: 8. Will the Minister make a statement on the provision of business rates relief grants for the not-for-profit sector during the Covid-19 pandemic? OQ55353

Rebecca Evans AC: Yes. The Welsh Government is providing £1.7 billion to help businesses and not‑for‑profit organisations in Wales during the coronavirus outbreak. This includes over £875 million for grants related to non-domestic rates. All not-for-profit organisations that meet the eligibility criteria will receive a grant of either £10,000 or £25,000.

Russell George AC: Thank you for your answer, Minister. If I can put, perhaps, an example to you of a not-for-profit childcare provider in Machynlleth in my constituency, with a rateable value of £12,000. They've contacted me to say that the vast majority of their income comes from charging fees for looked-after children as opposed to donations. They say that they are not eligible for the business rates relief grant—either the £10,000 or £25,000 rate—because they have received 100 per cent rate relief as a charity.
Business Wales seems to suggest that not-for-profit organisations and childcare providers that qualify for the 100 per cent small business rate relief should receive the £10,000 grant. So, there is some, I think, confusion as to why this particular business is excluded. Are you able to provide any clarification today on how the business rate relief grant scheme should work for the charitable and not-for-profit sector?

Rebecca Evans AC: As I say, they have been included in our non-domestic rates related grant scheme. So, perhaps if you write to me with that specific case, I can look into it to make sure that we provide the correct advice.

I thank the Minister.

That brings our morning's session to a close. We will reconvene at 14:15, and just to remind Members that they need to be present in the session for me to be able to call them for questions. So, make sure that you keep your cameras on if you are in the session, otherwise I can't see you to know that you are there to be called.

So, I will see you all at a quarter past two.

See you at 14:15.

Plenary was suspended at 13:28.
The Senedd reconvened at 14:15, with the Deputy Presiding Officer (Ann Jones) in the Chair.

5. Questions to the Minister for International Relations and Welsh Language

Good afternoon, everybody. Welcome back after our break, and we return to our agenda with item 5, which is questions to the Minister for International Relations and the Welsh Language. Question 1 this afternoon is to be answered by the Deputy Minister for Culture, Sport and Tourism. Question 1—MikeHedges.

Welsh-medium Publications

Mike Hedges AC: 1. Will the Minister provide an update on Welsh Government support for local Welsh-medium publications during the Covid-19 pandemic? OQ55349

Minister, you need to unmute your phone.I can't hear you. Sorry, you need to put your mic on. No, try again. No, sorry, we're not hearing the Minister.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas AC: Is that all right now?

That's fine. Thank you, Minister. Sorry about that.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas AC: Sorry, it was the extension lead that got me into trouble.

Oh, right. There we go.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas AC: Thank you very much, Mike, for that question and for asking it in Welsh, and I will answer in Welsh too. The Welsh Government recognises the importance of local Welsh-medium publications in ensuring that people in all parts of Wales have access to vital local news and information during this current public health crisis. We are working closely with the Books Council of Wales and other stakeholders to support publications during this period.

Mike Hedges AC: Thankyou, Minister. The importance of local Welsh-medium publications—Julie James, Rebecca Evans and myself do advertise on a monthly basis in our monthly Welsh-language publication,Wilia. So, what's the Minister doing in order to ensure the continuation of such publications?

Dafydd Elis-Thomas AC: Well,Wilia is one of a network of 52 papurau bro, if memory serves me correctly, and they're available throughout Wales, and they play a crucial role in linking and connecting communities, particularly in situations such as this public health crisis. We have supported them through the mentrau iaith, and as I said at the outset, there are 52 papurau bro, and there is a grant of £97,000 that has been budgeted in order to target assistance for papurau bro during the 2020-1 financial year.

Suzy Davies AC: Deputy Minister, Hwbhas been a fundamental part of home schooling over the past three months, but I still receive correspondence from non-Welsh-speaking parents who don't feel that they have been in a position to assist their children who attend Welsh-medium schools. So, would it be possible for you to speak to the education Minister as to how copies of papurau bro can be uploaded, perhaps, as educational resources for parents and their children? There are examples of how written and spoken words are used in particular areas and they will be very useful resources for every school, looking at the new local curriculum in particular.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas AC: Well, the papurau bro—at least half of them now, I believe—are published digitally, and therefore they are available online online as a medium that people can turn to. I would encourage the papurau bro to take advantage of the support of the Welsh Books Council, and through the books council the Welsh Government, in order to enable more people to take advantage of digital material through the medium of Welsh at a local level. Thank you.

Thank you. Question 2 is again to be answered by the Deputy Minister for Culture, Sport and Tourism. Question 2—Russell George.

Mid Wales as a Tourist Destination

Russell George AC: 2. Will the Minister make a statement on the promotion of mid Wales as a tourist destination? OQ55352

Dafydd Elis-Thomas AC: I'm very pleased to make a statement about mid Wales because, as no doubt you know, Russell, I used to live there for 20 years, and in those days, of course, there was a lot of interest in promoting the identity of mid Wales. When it came to my role in tourism, I was very keen that we maintained mid Wales as a region.

Russell George AC: Thank you, Minister. I very much welcome that answer. Tourism businesses, I think, are looking to the Welsh Government for some kind of aspirational timetable on when they can reopen their doors again—operating, of course, under social distancing guidance. In order to avoid irreversible damage to the mid-Wales economy—and I know you care about the mid-Wales economy as I do—what do you and the Welsh Government plan to do to promote mid Wales as a post-COVID tourist destination? Can you commit to putting a long-term package of financial support in place for the sector, which of course is continuing to be adversely affected and is likely to be for some time to come?

Dafydd Elis-Thomas AC: Well, I'm pleased to say I look forward to discussing this with Steve Hewson, who represents mid Wales on our tourism conference, which is a regular fortnightly, and sometimes weekly, event that we hold. In the discussions that I've had with him, the whole question of mid Wales as a major centre for national events—and obviously Steve himself is a chief executive of the Royal Welsh Agricultural Society—that centre, although obviously not going to hold an event this year, remains a key focus for tourism. We must remember that so much of tourism is in fact not just leisure tourism—it's business tourism, it's people visiting other regions in order to share experiences. I'm certain that in this case mid Wales is in a very strong position because of the distinctive centres of events that we have there.

Questions Without Notice from Party Spokespeople

Thank you. We now turn to party spokespeople to question the Minister. The first this afternoon is Conservative spokesperson, Suzy Davies.

Suzy Davies AC: Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. If you'll just give me a second—thank you.
Good afternoon, Minister. We'll be discussing more contentious aspects of the Welsh language in the debate on the new curriculum later this afternoon, so I'll leave that issue for the time being. But I do want to ask you about your vision for reaching the 2050 target, and the impact of the pandemic on learners of Welsh. The current pandemic has shifted people's focus from other priorities. However, the supplementary budget hasn't hit your department too hard, possibly because the Welsh language budget isn't particularly large in the first instance, to be fair. So, what have you had to cut, and does it have most impact on developing new use of the Welsh language in education, business or community settings? Specifically with more families having to oversee home learning, how are cuts in your budget impacting on the National Centre for Learning Welsh, Mudiad Meithrin, the language immersion centres in Gwynedd, where cuts of £100,000 per annum have already been in place, and specific support for families who don't speak Welsh but have children in Welsh-medium education?

Eluned Morgan AC: Thank you very much, Suzy. This is something that we are highly aware of—that there are risks that people won't have the opportunity to practise their Welsh language skills, particularly if they have children in Welsh-medium education, and they will now have had three months without that opportunity to practise their Welsh. It's good to see that children have returned this week, and we have been clear that there are numerous resources available through Hwb in order to enable parents to help their children. In addition to that, we have ensured that there is software available, free of charge, which assists people to spell correctly, it assists with grammar and so on and so forth. So, we also hope that that will assist people.
In terms of funding, like every other department, we have had to make cuts in our budgets. One of the areas where we had to make those cuts was in the National Centre for Learning Welsh. Of course, it wasn't possible for the centre to provide lessons in the way that it usually would. It was impossible for people to attend classes, for example. But what we have seen is that people are undertaking those lessons online. And, to tell the truth, more people are likely to turn up to their classes online than they were to turn up to the physical classes. So, it is interesting to see whether change is afoot. And, of course, as you develop resources for working online, there is also an opportunity for us to rethink the way in which we provide those resources.
You asked about Mudiad Meithrin, well, we are keeping a very close eye on what is happening there, and that is an issue, of course, for the education Minister. And the immersion centres—it is a shame that they have been in a position where that immersion couldn't happen. But, of course, we hope now that, as we move forward to September, we will be able to reconsider that and put measures in place to ensure that there are opportunities to recommence these activities, particularly for those people who are eager to have Welsh-medium education but need that additional support.

Suzy Davies AC: Well, thank you for that response. Yes, I was also pleased to hear that many people were using lockdown in terms of turning an ambiguous aspiration into reality, but it's easier to fall out of habits than it is to establish new ones. So, what opportunities will be available for learners to use their new skills in a meaningful way? Standards do some of that work for you, I know that, but will your current budget and your longer term budgets allow you to prioritise those people who could start to use their new skills in the workplace?
As this is a cross-governmental responsibility, what have you been telling your colleagues in the economy and education departments on three specific things: first, new support—can you offer childcare placements that offer bilingual opportunities or Welsh language opportunities to support staff who have been learning Welsh, whilst accepting the need to provide high-quality services for children; support for a further education and apprenticeship action plan through the medium of Welsh, through the Coleg Cymraeg Cenedlaethol; and how can you ensure that initial teacher training courses do develop Welsh language skills for all prospective teachers, because this is a serious challenge, particularly—

Can you come to a conclusion, please?

Suzy Davies AC: Yes, of course. And how to do that without preventing anyone from entering the profession in the first place.

Eluned Morgan AC: Well, there was a whole host of questions there, Suzy, and I won't have an opportunity to answer them all. But just to pick up on some of them—of course we will need to reconsider the way that we provide support, and we will have to consider how we can think again about providing opportunities for people to practise their Welsh language skills. There are ways of doing that online, and I know that there is a lot of innovative work being done by the national centre.
In terms of skills and the importance of Welsh language skills—and I think it's important to highlight that speaking Welsh is a skill, and it's certainly something that's recognised within Welsh Government that will become more important in the future in terms of staffing within Welsh Government. And we hope that that will lead the way for other organisations across Wales, where there will be recognition that speaking Welsh as a skill is something that brings something additional to a post.
In terms of childcare, I do know that there are people working at the moment on the process of seeking to ensure that Welsh-medium summer activities are available. So, work is being done on that at the moment. And, in terms of training courses, you will be aware, Suzy, that it is a requirement now for students to have some Welsh language learning if they do want to become teachers. So, that is now part of that curriculum, if you do wish to train to become a teacher in Wales.

Suzy Davies.

Suzy Davies AC: No, those were all my questions together, Dirprwy Lywydd.

Okay, thank you. That was helpful then, thank you. Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Siân Gwenllian.

Siân Gwenllian AC: Good afternoon. The economic impact of the pandemic on the Welsh-medium creative industries has been immense, with many creative industries reliant on bringing people together. These were some of the first sectors to close down and it’s likely that they will be among the last to be able to return to a level of activity that's commercially viable. It is a very significant sector here in north Wales, with 14,000 people working within it—that is the Welsh- and English-medium sectors, of course—but, at the moment, there is no sign that further support is to be provided from Westminster. So, what discussions have you had with the Deputy Minister for culture on support for the Welsh-medium creative sector, given that the Deputy Minister had stated last week that he was willing to consider reassessing the support available for the arts?

Eluned Morgan AC: I think that if you look at what the arts council has done in terms of its funding, they've restructured that, they've understood that there is a crisis within the industry, and they have ensured that it's possible for people to apply for funding through the process that they've established. I'm very grateful that Dafydd Elis-Thomas has led on that work. And, of course, there is an opportunity within that for those working in the creative industries through the medium of Welsh to access that funding. That isn't sufficient. We are highly aware that there is a crisis in the arts at present.
Our hope, of course, is that the Westminster Government will bring forward a new package of funding, and, if that does happen, of course, we would be very hopeful that we could provide the appropriate Welsh share in order to provide new support, which would ensure that there is support available for this sector. This sector has grown immensely over the past 10 years. There are around 50,000 people across Wales working in the sector and it would be tragic if we were to miss this opportunity to build on what was already in place. But, of course, it is suffering at the moment, and many of the jobs in this sector are not full-time posts; they are not roles where individuals can rely on a regular salary. We're highly aware of all of this and we're hopeful and we are pushing the UK Government to ensure that they understand the situation and provide funding to us.

Siân Gwenllian AC: Well, I'm very pleased that you have acknowledged that there is a very real crisis in this particular sector and that the Welsh-medium sector is an integral part of this, and that you will strive to ensure that this sector is given support, be there funding from Westminster or not. I do think that we need to invest in this sector directly, and that the Welsh Government needs to do that if the Tories in Westminster don't see the sector as being important enough for them to support financially.
Public service broadcasting has also been very important during this lockdown period, hasn't it, with large numbers turning to S4C for Welsh-medium output, and it has a particular role in supporting and conveying Welsh language culture to children. A large percentage of children in Welsh-medium education come from homes where the Welsh language isn't spoken, and they are turning in their thousands to Cyw and Ysgol Cyw on S4C. Since lockdown, viewership of S4C's programming for children has increased by 182 per cent.
Now, there is room for further development, and particularly to develop the educational digital elements, and there is an opportunity to do that through strengthening the partnership between Hwb and S4C Clic. So, will you commit to progressing with this work as soon as possible—this partnership work between Hwb and S4C Clic?

Eluned Morgan AC: Thank you. Certainly, I think that S4C has been of great assistance, particularly to those from non-Welsh-speaking households, giving them an opportunity to listen to the Welsh language, particularly the younger children who get so much joy from watching Cyw. Certainly, as a parent, I know that that was a means for me to have a break from time to time when I was responsible for childcare.
But, just to say, in terms of the digital dimension, we are highly aware of the importance of Hwb and we will seek to see how we can link what is happening on Hwb with the digital resource available through S4C. We've already spoken to S4C about the new curriculum to see what resources are available. Of course, S4C has a large archive that could perhaps be adapted for the new curriculum. So, those discussions have been ongoing and they will certainly develop in the future.

Siân Gwenllian AC: I'm sure that non-Welsh-speaking parents specifically will appreciate those developments. We know that there is concern that they're unable to support their children fully during this period. So, to take that discussion a little further, what conversations have you had with the education Minister on this issue, on those specific concerns that exist around the Welsh-medium sector, and do you feel that there needs to be a specific strategy in place for Welsh-medium education, with guidance and meaningful training in place for the workforce so that they can use virtual platforms to their full potential? It's crucial, isn't it, in terms of language acquisition and usage to have that direct interaction between pupil and teacher—it's even more important, perhaps, when we're talking of learning a language. Also, I think that parents need to know what resources are available to them and how to access those resources. So, can you commit to promoting those resources and the support that is available for those parents who do want to support their children during the next weeks and months?

Eluned Morgan AC: Of course, I do meet the education Minister regularly to discuss issues related to education and the Welsh language. I know that she is highly aware of the importance of ensuring that children have an opportunity to practice their Welsh language skills during this difficult time. But I would say that guidance has already been provided—not just from Government, but we have also asked headteachers to distribute those resources to children within schools. I am aware, for example, that I, as a parent, have received information through the school as to what resources are available. So, it's good to know that that system is working and that the direction that we have provided has reached those parents. So, I am hopeful that that will develop. Just to say, of course, I do think that all teachers will need to reconsider how they teach virtually, and to see what resources are available to them. Of course, we have to consider that in the Welsh and the English-medium sectors.

Thank you. We turn to questions on the order paper, and questions 3, 4 and 5 will all be answered by the Deputy Minister for Culture, Sport and Tourism. So, question 3—Mark Isherwood.

Tourism in North Wales

Mark Isherwood AC: 3. How is the Welsh Government supporting tourism in North Wales? OQ55351

Dafydd Elis-Thomas AC: Thank you for that question, Mark. Our package of support for the visitor economy and the tourism industry is the most generous in the United Kingdom. And, at 5 June, over £10 million had been awarded to tourism enterprises through our economic resilience fund. We estimate that this has safeguarded over 4,500 employees in the sector. And we are now in phase 2 of the fund, which is open, which will assist additional tourism businesses who access the funding.

Mark Isherwood AC: Well, although small bed and breakfasts are a mainstay of local tourism economies across north Wales, they're ineligible for the Welsh Government's £10,000 business grant. When I raised this with the economy Minister, he referred to the eligibility checker for the second phase of the economic resilience fund. When it opened, they were ineligible. When I questioned him about this, he said he would have to understand why. I therefore wrote to him with their evidence. In his reply, like you, he said the support package in Wales is the most comprehensive and generous in the UK, yet grants are available to B&B operators in England and Scotland who do not qualify for other COVID-19 grant support, but operators in Wales have been denied equivalent grants. What, therefore, is your message for the genuine B&B business operators who have told me their finances have now run out and they can't go on any longer? I hope it's one of hope.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas AC: I am happy to review the situation, and I'd be very interested in seeing examples of the businesses that have approached you, so that our officials can talk to them about how we can meet their needs more effectively.

Broadcasting in Wales

Dai Lloyd AC: 4. What assessment has the Minister made of the effectiveness of broadcasting in Wales during the Covid-19 pandemic? OQ55367

Dafydd Elis-Thomas AC: Thank you very much for that question. And I will find the answer in a few moments' time. Here we are. The Welsh Government has worked closely with the public service broadcasters and with Ofcom in Wales during this current public health crisis on broadcasting issues that affect Wales, despite the fact that broadcasting is not devolved.

Dai Lloyd AC: Minister, during the current pandemic, the accuracy of broadcasting has consistently disappointed us here in Wales. People believe that the situation with different rules being in place for Wales is not being given enough prominence by public service broadcasters at a UK level. We in Wales are often fed with erroneous information, or incomplete information, as to the various different COVID rules in Wales as compared to England, for example. Now, as you've said, the Culture, Welsh Language and Communications Committee is currently undertaking an inquiry into the devolution of broadcasting to this Senedd. But, in the short term, Deputy Minister, with this pandemic still affecting us, what discussions are you having with the public service broadcasters in the UK, the wider media, and with the UK Government, to ensure that the messages conveyed to the people of Wales are clear and accurate?

Dafydd Elis-Thomas AC: This is a matter for Ofcom as the regulator. And may I again ask for examples? Every time we come across examples as Ministers, or officials within Government, we raise them directly. But the problem does not lie in Wales. It is a problem in terms of a lack of understanding of the UK constitution, and of the impact of devolution, among broadcasters who broadcast in Wales from England.

David Melding AC: Deputy Minister, as well as the large public sector broadcasters, there's a whole host of community and local and regional radio stations around Wales, and we've seen during the pandemic the vital role they play, both in raising the morale of people locally, but also as a news outlet. Do you think it's time that we recognised their contribution, perhaps through procurement and advertising and public service announcements as well, and information, as a key way of supporting these really important community advocates?

Dafydd Elis-Thomas AC: That question warms my heart, because in the dim and distant past, I was a director of one of these community stations, called Champion FM, in the north, and it was a very successful radio station, which is still operating. I have followed, with some concern, what has happened in terms of the ownership and control of some of our smaller stations. And I can see that there is a very strong argument for us ensuring that there is always support, which can be directed at arm's length to community radio. And I'm very happy to take another look at this and see if there's more direct support that we can give. But it has to be, in my view, at arm's length. It shouldn't be Welsh Government investing in radio stations, even if we had the money to do it.

Vikki Howells AC: Thank you, Deputy Minister, I have listened with interest to the questions and answers from other people on this topic, and the reason I wanted to come in was to say that I've been contacted by a number of constituents who were very angry that they'd heard the wrong messages on the UK TV show This Morning, and were very concerned to ring in or text in to put them straight about what the position was here in Wales. I think there's no better evidence that the Welsh Government's message is getting out loud and clear in Wales than constituents ringing in toThis Morning to tell them that their message is actually incorrect. So, would you agree with me, Deputy Minister, that that shows that the Welsh Government's message is getting out loud and clear here in Wales, even if there are difficulties getting the right message through to UK media?

Dafydd Elis-Thomas AC: Thank you very much, Vikki, for providing us with that example. I didn't actually see that particular programme, but certainly I'll make sure that the communications people who work very hard to make sure that the Welsh Government's message is transmitted properly to the people of Wales are able to ensure that that message is also transmitted properly to stations received in Wales from outside, where the journalists and the presenters often don't have an understanding of the interesting complexity of the constitution of the United Kingdom.

Outdoor Sports

Hefin David AC: 5. Will the Minister provide an update on the reintroduction of outdoor sports for children and young people following Covid-19? OQ55366

Dafydd Elis-Thomas AC: Yes, I'm very happy to provide further information about outdoor sports and, indeed, the developments that we've seen over the last few weeks, where the opportunities for outdoor sports have been emphasised by the opening up of a number of sporting activities. And I have a list here, if I can locate it, of those: they include, increasingly, the sports for various courts, including tennis obviously, bowls and other external activities of that kind. And we are particularly interested in ensuring that young people are able to undertake physical activity because it is part of our responsibility as a Government to promote physical activity throughout the whole of Wales.

Hefin David AC: I've been contacted by a resident who coaches under-eights football, which is a non-contact sport, but football more generally is deemed to be a contact sport, so their coach feels that being allowed to resume practice, with social distancing measures in place, would be a great benefit to the children who take part. So, can any allowance be made for the resumption of outdoor football when it involves children and is non-contact?

Dafydd Elis-Thomas AC: I'm willing to take another look at this and, of course, I will discuss it with Sport Wales, who are our main conduit for our relationship with the various governing bodies. And I can say that we already supported the reopening of—I mentioned tennis and bowling greens—basketball courts, golf driving ranges, cycling velodromes, athletics tracks and cricket nets. All these are now activities that have been reopened, but I will certainly ask the question whether it is possible to describe certain forms of other sports, such as football, as not being contact sports. I can see some difficulty there, knowing the way that my young grandson plays his football in the Vale, but I'm very happy to take a look at that. Thank you.

Angela Burns AC: Thank you for your answer to Hefin David, Minister. I particularly want to make a plea actually for young female sports. I fear that there are going to be greater challenges for women's sports and female sports to come back after COVID-19. The Health and Social Care Committee did a very good report on physical sport and they identified very clearly the challenges, but particularly for girls and young women. Many of the sports that you've just mentioned—great that they've come back, they're outside sports—many of them do not appeal to young women, and I wonder if you would be prepared to bend your civil servants' minds toward what we could do to make fun, outdoor activity available to particularly the young teenagers who need to go out, they need to get fit, they need to actually just have social contact and a bit of fun after three or four very, very tough months for young people. I do worry that they will be left out of the equation going forward.

Dafydd Elis-Thomas AC: Well, we have a priority for increasing the participation especially of young women in various sports. We have supported netball, we've supported women's rugby, we've supported women's football and I will certainly take that as a mission during this public health crisis. Thank you.

Future Trade Relations

Jayne Bryant AC: 6. What discussions is the Welsh Government having with Welsh businesses regarding the future trade relations of the UK? OQ55381

Eluned Morgan AC: Well, I'm really aware of the extremely challenging situation that many businesses in Wales are facing, especially as a result of COVID and Brexit, so I've formed a trade policy advisory group to help me determine the key trade challenges facing Wales. And this includes working with a number ofrepresentative bodies and holding sector meetings with businesses.

Jayne Bryant AC: Thank you, Minister. With the uncertainty surrounding UK trade, it's vital that businesses in Wales have strong voices championing them. Companies such as Tiny Rebel Brewery, in my constituency, have done a fantastic job in expanding the Welsh brand globally, with beers such as Cwtch and Clwb Tropica being sold around the world. With the added economic uncertainty because of COVID-19, we can't afford for Welsh businesses to face added pressures of increased tariffs. Throughout this time, businesses are adapting to circumstances. What support can the Welsh Government give to those businesses who have had existing networks of trade with other countries? And how can you support and encourage businesses who are looking to export products for the first time, to ensure Welsh companies continue to flourish in these most difficult of times?

Eluned Morgan AC: Thank you very much. And you're absolutely right: Tiny Rebel has been a great example of a company in Wales that has spread out overseas and is really flying the flag for our country abroad. Of course, a lot of the trade exports have been massively impacted by coronavirus. One of the things that we're doing now to address this issue is that we're having a complete refresh of our export strategy. So, that's hopefully going to be announced in the beginning of September. We're having consultations with business sectors at the moment just to make sure that we are testing out our ideas in that space. Certainly, we have a team of trade advisers in the Welsh Government who are there to lend a hand to people who are already exporting or those who would like to export. And, of course, we're trying to work also with the UK Government to use the networks that they also have in place. So, we're confident that we're starting to put the right things in place for once we're in a more settled situation, but obviously this is a very, very difficult time for exporters.

Darren Millar AC: I was very pleased to hear your response there in respect of the way that the Welsh Government is working positively and constructively with the UK Government in order to deliver the benefits that trade deals can amass to the Welsh economy. Clearly, there is work going on at pace with the EU, the US, the Japanese and many other Governments around the world, and I wonder to what extent the Welsh Government has the capacity to be able to contribute to all of those discussions at present. I appreciate we're in unusual circumstances and that people have to prioritise budgets, but I am keen to make sure that Wales has the strongest possible voice in those discussions. So, can you tell us, in terms of the capacity of your department, are you confident that it is sufficient to be able to make meaningful contributions to those wider discussions?

Eluned Morgan AC: Well, because this is a whole new area—not just of course for the Welsh Government, but for the UK Government as well—we have massively increased, as has the UK Government, the number of people involved in this space in terms of trade, to make sure that, as you suggest, our voice is heard loud and clear. Not so much with the EU negotiations, where the approach and the discussions have been pretty random in terms of how we're able to contribute there, but I've got to say that when we're talking about the rest of the world, those negotiations and those discussions with the UK Government and our opportunity to feed into the negotiations has been a really constructive relationship. We've not only fed in, but we've actually seen the results of us feeding in, and so I think we've got to pay respect to the UK Government in this space, and I'm really pleased to see that that is happening. We hope, of course, to continue in that vein. We're waiting still, of course, for the concordat to be signed so that we'll have that on a formal basis, but to be fair to the UK Government, they're acting at the moment as if the concordat were in place. That is a formal structure for negotiation. And they also are having a refresh of their export strategy, so we are keeping an eye on that to make sure that whatever we do dovetails in with what they're doing as well.

David Rees AC: Minister, I appreciate the comments you're making regarding the concordat being effectively in place because of individuals' positions, but surely it's important that we need that concordat signed.
I have deep concerns over some of these agreements. For example, in the Japanese-UK discussions, the Japanese have already indicated that they want a six-week completion date. That puts a lot of pressure upon the process, and how can we be assured that the Welsh voice and the interest of Welsh citizens, in such a short timescale, are being delivered and met? And are you, therefore, in the room when discussions have been taking place? Do they report back to you? How can we have that assurance, and how can we scrutinise that deal?

Eluned Morgan AC: Well, just to be clear that we're not just starting the negotiations here. We have been discussing with the UK Government since February and March, feeding into what we think those negotiating mandates should look like, and I'm glad to say that we've actually had an influence there. So, the text has been amended, for example, in relation to the Japanese text, to make sure that there's a reaffirmation of those commitments to the UN framework convention on climate change and the Paris agreement. That wasn't there before; it's there now because we pushed that. So, we've already had an impact, I think, in terms of the negotiating mandate.
We are intensely aware of the very short time frame in which we are working. The Japanese Parliament—the National Diet—needs that to be in place by the end of September. So, they've made it clear they want an agreement, really, by the end of July. So, those negotiations are happening at pace. We get a briefing before the negotiations start, and in fact we're having a briefing with Greg Hands, the Minister, tomorrow, and we get an update after the negotiations happen. So, that is a rhythm that we are very comfortable with.

Finally, question 7, Siân Gwenllian.

Proposed Curriculum Bill on the Welsh Language

Siân Gwenllian AC: 7. What assessment has the Minister made of the effect of the proposed curriculum Bill on the Welsh language? OQ55382

Eluned Morgan AC: An integrated impact assessment for the curriculum and assessment Bill has been undertaken. This includes an assessment of its impact on the Welsh language, and the integrated impact assessment was published alongside the White Paper on the Bill in January 2019.

Siân Gwenllian AC: I know that the last thing that you want to see is that the new curriculum would have a detrimental impact in terms of your Government's ambition to reach 1 million Welsh speakers, or, indeed, that it would undermine your efforts in any way. Indeed, any Minister for the Welsh language would seek the opportunity to strengthen the position of the Welsh language through this new legislation. But if it's proved to you that this Bill will have unintended consequences that will be damaging to the Welsh language, would you then be willing to support efforts to change what is on the face of the Bill? That is to say, if it becomes clear during the Bill's journey through the Senedd that the legislation would damage your 1 million Welsh speakers ambition, will you press for change?

Eluned Morgan AC: Well, I would just say that I do have quite intensive discussions with the education Minister on this particular issue. Of course, I would be hugely concerned if there were to be any detrimental impact on the Welsh language. So, it is important to ensure that it's possible to continue to provide immersion education in the Welsh language and that there's no difficulty in that area, and that we also look at the fact that, by 2050, we want to see 40 per cent of our children in Welsh-medium education. So, these issues are raised and, of course, I do hope that, when the Bill is published formally over the next few weeks, things will be in place with which I will be comfortable, and so that those people who are concerned about the Welsh language are also comfortable with what's contained.

Thank you very much, Minister.

6. Questions to the Senedd Commission

Item 6 on our agenda this afternoon is questions to the Senedd Commission. All the questions this afternoon will be answered by the Llywydd. Question 1, Helen Mary Jones.

Extension of the Franchise for Senedd Elections

Helen Mary Jones AC: 1. What preparations has the Commission put in place regarding the extension of the franchise for Senedd elections, despite the coronavirus pandemic? OQ55359

Since 1 June, young people who will be 16 or 17 years old when the Senedd elections next year are held can register to vote. The Commission has created education resources to help young people to understand how our democracy works. These were available on Hwb—the Welsh Government's digital learning and teaching platform—ahead of the opening of registration on 1 June, and additional resources appropriate for use in a number of settings, including for home schooling, will be added shortly. The Commission has written to schools to offer the usual online outreach services, ensuring that the education and engagement team continues to offer direct engagement during this pandemic period.

Helen Mary Jones AC: Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. Thank you very much. It's very pleasing to see that there's been such progress on this work at such an incredibly difficult time, when the staff of the Commission have had so many pressures on them. It's also, of course, been very pleasing to see the Youth Parliament continuing its work. Have you been able to make or will you be able to make any assessment about what the registration rate is for that group of young people? Will we be able to know, perhaps by the autumn, where people are registering and where they're not, and might that then be a case for the Commission targeting its resources further if we find that, with particular groups of young people or in particular geographical areas, we haven't got the levels of registration that we would all wish to see?

Well, that's an excellent point that you make. Of course, we will want to keep an eye on the level of registrations by young people. This is a challenging time for everyone as regards carrying out this work, and particularly for local authorities, who are responsible for this registration work on a practical level. So, we do seek to provide local government with as much flexibility as possible during this current time, but, as we move towards the autumn and winter, we will have to look at the numbers that have already registered and see how those patterns are emerging. Where further work is needed, we will work with the Welsh Government, the Electoral Commission and local government in order to ensure that that further work is done so that every young person in Wales is aware of the new right that they will have next year to vote in the Senedd Cymru elections.

Future Working Practices

Mandy Jones AC: 2. What assessment has the Commission made of the impact of lockdown on future working practices for both Members of the Senedd and Commission staff? OQ55356

The Senedd Commission has been prioritising the work of ensuring that Senedd business continues and that it's safe to return to the estate as restrictions are relaxed. In the last meeting of the Commission, the Commissioners were provided with an update on the arrangements in place because of the COVID-19 pandemic and on preparations to ensure that it would be safe to return to the estate in due course. The Commission's assessment of these preparations is informing Business Committee decisions on the Senedd's activities.

Mandy Jones AC: Thank you for that answer. I'd like to take this opportunity to pay tribute to all staff, both Commission and AMSS. They continue to provide the excellent levels of service we have come to expect, even in these trying times. It's clear that staff and Members of the Senedd can work effectively and remotely from home or elsewhere with all of the benefits of not fighting through traffic jams, fewer distractions, and getting more done in less time. Will the Commission now look to embed some of the lessons learnt from lockdown into ways of working for all, so that the Senedd can offer flexible, family-friendly and considerate ways of working for those that want and actually need them? Thank you.

Thank you for the question, Mandy Jones, and thank you also for your thanks for the considerable efforts by the staff of the Commission in making sure that our role as a Senedd in scrutinising Government and passing legislation has been undertaken effectively over the past few weeks. I've been bowled over by the efforts; so many of our staff have been able to achieve so much in difficult working circumstances—working from home, as we have been doing—to ensure that the work of our Senedd continues. So, my personal 'diolch'to them all as well, and I'm sure I speak on behalf of all of us in sharing your thanks, Mandy Jones for that.
And yes, we have worked with the frustrations of working remotely, but we've also seen many of the benefits of working remotely, both as a Senedd in our business and also in the work that our staff are able to do remotely. We'll learn the lessons from this and, I've no doubt, like many other aspects of life, our Senedd and the Commission will be working in different ways in the years to come because of the experiences of this time of pandemic. And there will be good that comes from this in terms of designing our future working lives.

Senedd Business

Alun Davies AC: 3. Will the Commission make a statement on arrangements to support Senedd business as the lockdown is eased? OQ55376

As you know, with the agreement of the Business Committee, the Senedd will trial hybrid Plenary meetings on 8 and 15 July. Under this model, up to 20 Members can participate from the Siambr, whilst other Members will participate virtually. In addition to developing technologies and proceedings to allow us to support virtual and hybrid proceedings, Senedd staff have developed a remote voting application. This will enable Members to vote individually from remote locations. This will be used for the first time in Plenary next week.

Alun Davies AC: Thank you very much. I appreciate the efforts that you, the Commission and the staff have made in enabling us to work as we do. It strikes me, Llywydd, as I look at you on the screen and look at other Members, too, that we have an opportunity here to consider not just how we arrange our business, but how we consider that business, and I would like you, as Llywydd, to use the opportunity that we've had during this period to lead a debate among Members and others in terms of how we arrange our business and the kind of business that we do discuss in our Plenary and committee sessions, and to look, before the end of this Senedd term, to test new ways of working, new ways of arranging business, so that when it comes to the end of this Senedd term, we will have had the opportunity to consider alternative ways of working before the next elections.

Well, thank you for those comments and for the question. I do agree with you that we are having to work in very different ways at the moment, and I'm looking at you all on the screen in front of me in various locations across Wales, and we are succeeding to carry on with the day-to-day activity that we're elected to undertake. But, the point that you're making is about not only how we stage our work through IT and meeting virtually particularly, but the content of what we do and what our agenda looks like, and how that business is delivered. And I do think that this provides us with an opportunity, once we have been able to draw a breath in responding to the pandemic, to look creatively at not only how we carry out our business, but what our business is and should be, and to give some consideration to all of that. So, I am happy to take that recommendation forward and to ask not only the Business Committee, but the Commission to look at the important lessons that emerge from this period, and how we can think about our agenda for the future in a way that reflects somewhat on the experiences that we've had over the past weeks and months.

Constituency Offices

Janet Finch-Saunders AC: 4. Will the Commission provide guidance to Members on the safe reopening of constituency offices? OQ55371

Individual Members are duty bound to keep employers and visitors safe in their constituency and regional offices, and they are responsible for deciding whether they have taken appropriate measures. The Commission is producing documents to supplement the Welsh Government's advice in a way that is designed to support Members to deliver their responsibilities as employers and controllers of premises.

Janet Finch-Saunders AC: Diolch, Llywydd. I will not be the only AM who feels that our constituents now wish to see our offices opened, so that advice surgeries can take place in person. Now, according to the 'Keep Wales safe at work' guidance issued by the Welsh Government, it states:
'All risks should be assessed, with meaningful discussion with staff'.
To date, however, I have only been asked to undertake a very simple and vague questionnaire from the Commission. So, is the Commission planning to undertake a risk assessment, guidance and advice to us as Members for a safe return, and for this to be soon? From what budget will the cost of safety precautions and social distancing measures be met? And why is it taking so long for any clear guidance to be issued by the Commission, especially when the Welsh Government has asked all employers and all other businesses to communicate with clarity and consistency? I believe that we, as Members, need that guidance. As regards the estate, particularly in Cardiff Bay, it does appear that you are taking all appropriate measures there, but yet, in our constituency offices, it does feel very much like we are on our own in this, and I don't find that acceptable as a Member. I want to be very dutiful to my staff in the first place, and my constituents as well. Thank you.

As I said, constituency offices and regional offices are the responsibility of the elected Member, and the elected Member, of course, is responsible for their own staff issues as well. We will provide the guidance that's required and requested, but it is a matter for individual Members to decide when it is appropriate and safe to undertake any work that they wish to do from their offices. We are all, of course, under the general guidance of working from home if it is possible to do so, and the very vast majority of all our staff, both as individual Members and as Commission staff, have been able to effectively work from home to date. But if Members feel that more guidance is required to Members on reopening, even if they believe that that needs to be available to Members on a case-by-case basis, then, please, Members, contact the Commission and we'll provide that guidance in individual cases. But, I repeat that the conduct and the workplace of the regional and constituency office is a matter for individual Members. Also, in terms of the answer on costs, of course, some elements will fall to the Commission and its budget, but very many aspects of these costs that any Member may wish to claim for will be part of the responsibility of the remuneration board.

Reopening the Welsh Parliament Estate

Andrew RT Davies AC: 5. Will the Commission make a statement on its ability to reopen the Welsh Parliament estate? OQ55378

In planning to reopen the estate in line with the easing of the lockdown rules, the Commission has undertaken comprehensive risk assessment and is following Welsh Government guidance for employers in order to implement safe arrangements. On 29 June, the Business Committee agreed that the Senedd will trial hybrid Plenary meetings on 8 and 15 July. Under this model, which maintains the 2m social distancing rules, up to 20 Members can participate from the Siambr while other Members participate virtually.

Andrew RT Davies AC: Thank you, Presiding Officer, for that answer. I, too, would like to put on record my thanks to the Commission staff and everyone who has obviously helped us, as Members, over the course of the last 12 weeks or more. But, I do think that it's a matter of urgency now that the Assembly parliamentary estate is reopened—in safe conditions, I might add—and I was pleased to hear that modelling work has gone on to that effect.
Can you confirm when the Commission will move from its current planning, of only 10 per cent of staff or Members returning to the estate, to a more normal figure—like we have in the education system—of 30 per cent, as I believe that is the Public Health Wales figure that can be used as a benchmark for return to work? And, if it does prove impossible to adapt some of the parliamentary estate, is the Commission actively looking, a bit like the Dublin Parliament has, at locating other facilities where greater engagement of Members can be achieved in a physical presence?

Well, as I said in my previous answer to Janet Finch-Sanders, the general guidance is that people should work from home where they are able to do so. The very vast majority of Commission staff and elected Members' staff have been able to work from home effectively and continue to do so. We work as a Commission in tandem with the general guidance of the Welsh Government at this point. Therefore, with that guidance still in place, then the vast majority of our staff will continue to work from home until that is done.
But, we are, as I said, planning for the return of staff for the purposes of next week's hybrid Plenary. Then, we can accommodate up to 10 per cent of staff and Members to put that into operation. That decision on 10 per cent was taken by the Commission in its last meeting. As we've done all along, we will review the experiences that we have from week to week, and adjust as we go along.
In terms of the issue that we are currently bound by the 2m distancing legislation in Wales and therefore in our Chamber, we cannot accommodate more than a third of our Members—up to 20 Members—in the Chamber at any one point in time. We will learn from the experiences of the next few weeks as to how the hybrid Chamber and Zoom meetings work, and then we will reflect on those to see how we develop our work for the autumn term.
As it's dawning on all of us, we may well be subject to COVID regulations for the medium term. Therefore, in addition to short-term adjustments that we've done over the past few weeks, as both a Business Committee and as a Commission, we have to plan for a medium-term solution, and we will look at all ways of working into the future to ensure that the most effective way of undertaking our work is done on behalf of the people of Wales.

Question 6 is Huw Irranca-Davies, but I am aware that he's having some technical problems. I just wonder whether IT have managed to sort that out for him. No, it doesn't look like it, so—

Dirprwy Lywydd, he makes the case for us that Zoom meetings can be very, very effective, but when the technology lets us down then we're all let down by it.

Yes, I think so. So, I think we can transfer that, perhaps, for a written answer to Huw Irranca-Davies. I can't see that he's managed to jump back in. No, okay, so we'll move on. Thank you very much.

7. Topical Questions

Item 7 is the topical question, and it's to be answered by the Minister for Economy, Transport and North Wales. Jack Sargeant.

Job Losses at Airbus

Jack Sargeant AC: 1. Will the Minister make a statement on discussions held between the Welsh and UK governments following the announcement of job losses at Airbus? TQ465

Thank you. Minister. Is the Minister there? It doesn't appear that the Minister is either picking this up—. So, we seem to be having quite a lot of problems with the technology this afternoon. I wonder whether we could postpone this and we'll sort out why the Minister is not able to communicate with us.So, if we could then go on to the next item on our agenda, which, again, I see—. I'm wondering whether there is a fault. Shall we have a five minute technical break just while we sort this out? So, we'll have five minutes and we'll reconvene in five minutes. Can you just wait so that broadcasting can switch everybody off and then we'll come back?

Plenary was suspended at 15:22.
The Senedd reconvened at 15:23, with the Deputy Presiding Officer in the Chair.

It appears now that we're back on, broadcasting. So, Jack Sargeant's topical question was asked, Minister, and you're aware of it, so could you answer it and then we'll go back to Jack for his supplementary?

Ken Skates AC: Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Last night's news is clearly devastating for all of the workers at Airbus in Broughton, their families, and the local communities surrounding the plant. Throughout the pandemic, we've called on the UK Government to work with us on a support package and to provide a clear route map to a recovery for the aerospace sector.

Jack Sargeant AC: Thank you for that answer, Minister. I spoke earlier about the need for an aerospace bailout from the UK Conservative Government. That, unfortunately, is in their hands, and they must decide whether they act and support our communities or let us down once again. There are measures, however, that this Welsh Labour Government can take to continue to support the industry.
Minister, you'll be aware that employees at Airbus and their families will be extremely worried and wondering where to turn. We need a Welsh Government supporting and working with them and their unions immediately. Minister, can I ask you what your plans are for Airbus, for the supply chain, and for the wider local economy, and also what the UK Government must do to support our communities in north-east Wales?

Ken Skates AC: Can I thank Jack Sargeant for his supplementary question and say that we are determined to work with Governments in Westminster and in Flintshire, and across the region, to ensure that we get the best possible prospects for those people who are affected by today's announcement? Of course, we would wish to minimise the numbers that have been announced, and we will seek support from the UK Government in striving to achieve that.
As you'll be aware, Jack, we've invested millions upon millions of pounds in the Advanced Manufacturing Research Centre to ensure that we capture the Wing of Tomorrow programme, and that remains our long-term strategic aim to ensure that the future of wing making is secured for Broughton.
In the very short term, in order to create a bridge to the point where Airbus in Broughton has that strong future prospect—[Inaudible.]—has to be given by UK Government to supporting those workers with a prolonged furlough scheme so that, if at all possible, a shorter working week can be implemented at the site.
Now, in addition to this, recognising that aviation is a reserved matter, the UK Government should look very closely at recommendations made by the Aerospace Wales Forum and Airbus, and others, including the potential for an air scrappage scheme, which could stimulate activity within the aerospace sector. And also, the need to recognise that additional research and development funding is required for the sector.
Now, we are offering up a unique opportunity, with the advanced research and technology centre that is planned for the Deeside area. That gives the UK Government an opportunity, through the Ministry of Defence, to invest in the site, in that particular facility, and to ensure that we can capture and hold on to the best skilled people, possibly, within the sector.

Thank you. Mark Isherwood.

Mark Isherwood AC: I'll just unmute. Thank you. Yes, this is dreadful, dreadful news for north-east Wales and the wider region and economy. I attended a briefing last evening with Airbus, alongside north-east Wales Conservative MPs, who explained that they're facing the most serious global crisis in the history of our industry and that the more formalised announcements on where the job losses will fall will come tomorrow. I hope that you'll tell us what plans you have in place—I'm sure you have—for tomorrow to be ready to respond, once the gaps are filled in, and, obviously, building on the assurance that this will be focused on voluntary rather than compulsory redundancies.
We heard from Airbus that they are talking to the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, and have been for some time, as well as yourselves, asking, in particular, for support for a shorter working week. I'd welcome your understanding of the position on that, at present, and what the Welsh Government's view might be.
Simon Hart, the Secretary of State, has said that there's been £10 billion' worth so far of UK investment in the aviation industry and that they'll keep doing that because they want it to survive. Again, I'd be interested to know what engagement you have, or will be having with your colleagues in BEIS regarding those comments.
And finally, if you could just mention the apprenticeship scheme. I know that Airbus has acknowledged positively the support that Welsh Government is providing for the apprenticeship scheme and that it's moving to staggered start dates and reduced class sizes. But, what could the Welsh Government do to support extended schemes in the future to enable new-start entrants to be hopefully there for recovery in the future?

Ken Skates AC: Can I thank Mark Isherwood for a number of constructive questions? And can I assure him, first of all, that I've been in very regular dialogue with Ministers within BEIS and the Wales Office? Indeed, weekly conversations have taken place during the course of the pandemic. I hope that they will continue once we're through this as well.
We haven't had the same degree of engagement with UK Treasury, and, of course, it's Treasury that will make the ultimate decision over whether to support Airbus workers with the financial support required to introduce a shorter working week. It is something that I've spoken with Ministers in BEIS and the Wales Office about, and I believe that we have unanimous support across Welsh Government and those departments in the UK Government for such an intervention. But it will require UK Treasury decisions to be made in a positive way, and I understand that they're considering this proposal at this present moment in time.
In addition, there are actions that the Welsh Government will be taking forward in the immediate future and in the short and longer and, indeed, medium term, including the creation of a rapid regional response team. That's up and running now. It will be operating on a cross-border basis as well. We'll be liaising with stakeholders right across north Wales and north-West England, recognising there is a huge issue concerning manufacturing on both sides of the border, not just aerospace, but other key sectors.
We'll also be hosting a summit, which will give many of the businesses within the supply chain an opportunity to determine what other prospects there are with other original equipment manufacturers within the aerospace industry. And, of course, we stand ready to support supply chain companies through the economic resilience fund.
Consultation on the specific number of jobs that will be announced at Broughton will take some time, as I'm sure you recognise, and we'll be working throughout that period with the company in making sure that anybody who finds themselves redundant following the consultation has support there through Working Wales to get training or further employment opportunities. As I've already said, the potential for an advanced technology and research centre will further attract investment intothe Deeside area, and that is a vitally important facility.
Now, in terms of the apprenticeship provision at Airbus, we are proud to have supported thousands upon thousands of apprentices at Airbus. They are amongst the very best apprentices anywhere in the UK. It is a stellar scheme, and we are very proud of it, and we are pleased that we are able to be funding, right now, in these difficult times, completion of year 3 apprentices, and we are finding a model of supporting financially new starts. Mark Isherwood, I'm sure you're aware of our continuing target of creating 100,000 high-quality all-age apprenticeships. That will continue, in spite of coronavirus. We expect to meet that target, and we will do all we can to ensure that the maximum numbers can be delivered through Airbus.

Llyr Gruffydd AC: Thank you, Minister, for your responses so far. It certainly is gut-wrenching news, and I very much align myself to the comments you made around looking at the four-day week and extending the furlough, and, certainly, the importance of the apprenticeship provision at Airbus. It's renowned and highly coveted across north Wales, and we really need to do everything we can to try and retain as much of those opportunities as possible.
Could you tell us a little bit more about what work you're looking at in relation to developing alternative works at the site? Clearly, there's reference in your statement issued earlier about maintenance, repair and overhaul work potentially being located on the site. You touched on research and innovation; I'm particularly keen to see, maybe, innovation around more environmentally friendly aspects of potential within that kind of technology and industry. It's certainly somewhere where we need to be pushing the sector. So, I'd like to hear about what your proposals are in terms of maybe trying to start to pursue some of those areas.
Also, of course, we have to remember—and I know you are aware of this, and you've already acknowledged this—that there's a big, big supply chain and a plethora of local businesses that are very dependent on the site at Broughton. So, could you tell us a little bit more about how you intend to engage with and support the wider supply chain that will be affected by these proposed redundancies?
And you'll be aware, I'm sure, that Plaid Cymru published last week our proposals for an economic renewal plan, which includes proposals such as a reskillWales package, an employment guarantee scheme for young people, which clearly is part of a wider approach to the post-COVID development we'd like to see. I'm wondering whether you'd be willing to certainly look at and consider some of those as potential interventions from Government.
Finally, we're talking about, mostly, economic impacts and the impact on businesses and employment, but there will clearly be an emotional, well-being impact, and an impact on people's mental health, people who have already been furloughed for many months now facing the prospect, of course, of not potentially having a job to go back to. So, can you assure us that not only will the support be there in relation to business advice and support around finding jobs and reskilling, but also the support that people might need in terms of their emotional and mental health and well-being?

Ken Skates AC: Can I thank Llyr Gruffydd for his questions and perhaps answer that last one first? Because I think it's absolutely vital we recognise the mental and emotional toll that this could place many people under. It's absolutely vital, therefore, that the support we offer is not just concerned with employment matters and skills opportunities, but also support for mental and emotional health. I have to say that the company itself has shown remarkable responsibility over many years in providing support and advice for workers who face mental health issues, and we will ensure, through the Working Wales programme, that we take care of individuals who are facing particular emotional strains right now. Working Wales was set up with the purpose of ensuring that it identifies all of the challenges, all of the barriers that individuals face when they are out of work, and that we put in place guidance, advice and support for them to overcome each and every barrier, including mental health.
Llyr, you raised a number of questions about alternatives, and it is vitally important that we look for every possibility to invest in jobs and businesses within that geographical area, recognising that it will be some time before the aerospace sector fully recovers. The Advanced Manufacturing Research Institute will provide a unique opportunity for collaboration and co-location by a number of primes that are interested in research and development around particularly electronics and electronics repair work. That will be very complementary to the aerospace presence at Broughton.
We're also looking at some other complementary sectoral activity that could be introduced within the Deeside area, and of course you'll be aware of the Heathrow logistics hub potential for the Tata Steel site. That could prove to be vitally important in providing alternative work for these incredibly skilled individuals. We believe that there are around 150 businesses within the Airbus supply chain that could be affected by the announcement overnight. We've already had discussions with them, and we've asked the Wales aerospace forum to carry out an audit of the likely impact of the announcement by Airbus overnight. As I said to Mark Isherwood, we're looking at opportunities through the forthcoming summit to introduce a number of businesses within the supply chain to other major manufacturers that they could supply goods or services to.

Russell George AC: Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I align myself with others that have commented. I think it's clearly disappointing news and a real blow for the aviation sector in Wales, and I think thoughts are with all those staff that have been affected. Some of the key questions have been asked, but I think it is concerning that the Welsh Government wrote to Ryanair to ask the airline to postpone a flight scheduled for this Friday from Cardiff Airport. If the Welsh Government don't allow flights, and don't believe that they should take place, then there's going to be an obvious knock-on effect for the aviation industry. So, it would be helpful if the Government could set out in this context what can be done in terms of changing the public health rules, as has been done in other parts of the country, the UK, to pass on a message that we're open for business here in Wales.

Ken Skates AC: Can I thank Russell George for his question and say what I said at the press conference this morning—that we look forward to ensuring that Cardiff international airport strengthens its relationship with Ryanair, resumes flights as soon as possible, as soon as it is safe to do so? But we must also recognise that the UK Government's advice remains in place regarding foreign travel, and that only essential travel should take place, and that the UK Government's quarantine measures remain in place. So, I would urge all of those individuals who have purchased tickets—and I recognise that many purchased them several months ago—to think incredibly carefully before flying on Friday, and if possible not to do so, because we still have this terrible virus that we have to deal with. If air bridges can be created, and when the Foreign and Commonwealth Office changes its advice, then we will be celebrating the fact that we will be able to deliver more flights in and out of Cardiff Airport. But those two flights we would wish to see postponed for the time being. However, we are very supportive of Cardiff Airport's efforts to attract more airlines and to develop more routes in the long term.

Thank you very much, Minister.

8. Statement by the Minister for Environment, Energy and Rural Affairs: The Climate Emergency

Item 8 on our agenda this afternoon is the statement by the Minister for the Environment, Energy and Rural Affairs on the climate emergency, and I call on the Minister for rural affairs, Lesley Griffiths.

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Throughout the coronavirus pandemic, we have maintained momentum in our response to the climate emergency. This includes new, multimillion investments in flood and coastal erosion risk management, emergency response capability, active travel schemes, low-emission vehicles, superfast broadband in rural areas, tree planting and a further round of the circular economy fund.

Lesley Griffiths AC: In April I made a commitment to provide a further statement to outline how we will go further and faster in pursuit of a zero-carbon Wales to deliver prosperity and equality, as well as clean air, water and land. We will achieve this by strengthening the resilience of our natural and built environments to the impact of a changing climate and by enabling an economic transformation that will displace our reliance on fossil fuels, creating the industries and the jobs of the future.
We have begun work to create a national forest for Wales, launching our community woodlands fund, a fourfold increase in woodland creation budget. We will continue to engage with the Welsh farming sector to understand how we can work with them to expand the role they play in maintaining and growing Wales's carbon stores.
We remain on track to meet our goal of investing £350 million in flood and coastal erosion risk. In April we announced a £60 million investment program for 2020-1, in addition to £14 million in funding to repair flood defences and transport infrastructure damaged during the intense storms that affected thousands of people across Wales earlier this year. During the pandemic, we've also established a new programme to address the risk to our communities from coal tips.
Our action on fuel poverty has supported thousands of households to improve their health and to offer protection against rising energy costs through investment of more than £300 million. Whilst the COVID-19 pandemic has caused disruption to the installation of energy efficiency measures within people's homes, I intend to provide a further statement in September to announce new plans and delivery mechanisms to realise even greater benefits for equality, for emissions, for local supply chains and jobs.
Welsh Government is also investing directly through the innovative housing programme, designed to test new approaches to building social and affordable housing that meets the highest environmental standards. The 1,400 homes being delivered in the first three years of the programme include 76 in Ruthin, which we hope will be the first in the UK to deliver net zero, whole-life carbon and are being built using Welsh timber. Over 600 more futureproof homes will be built in the coming year.
During the pandemic, we have seen a significant increase in both walking and cycling, and a dramatic increase in home working, which have significantly reduced emissions. To support communities to lock in positive travel habits, Welsh Government has provided £15 million of new funding for local authorities across Wales to reallocate road space, building on record levels of investment in active travel last year.
Wales has been a leader in the UK and globally in the shift to a circular economy. This year we've consulted on our strategy to achieve zero waste and have expanded the circular economy fund for business. The first round of grants saw investment in Welsh businesses to divert 6,000 tonnes of waste from landfill, saving more than 4,000 tonnes of carbon dioxide.
Wales is home to world-leading research to address the emissions from carbon-intensive industries, including steel and aviation. Working with our regional skills partnerships, we are working to ensure all regions of Wales have the skills needed for the adoption and expansion of emerging low-carbon technology.
In response to the pandemic, Wales has provided the most generous support package for business anywhere in the UK. However, we have made this support conditional on companies signing up to the Welsh Government economic contract, including a commitment to decarbonisation.
Public sector leadership in this area is vital. I will be publishing a Welsh public sector net zero reporting guide to help us understand the emissions footprint of Welsh public bodies, identify priority sources of emissions and monitor progress towards reaching our goal of a carbon neutral public sector by 2030. Our Welsh Government energy service has invested more than £96 million in public sector renewable energy projects, which over their lifetime will deliver 1 million tonnes of carbon savings and over £280 million of financial savings. The publication of the Welsh Government energy service's annual report today showcases our progress in the last year.
Earlier this year, we published our policy to require all new energy installations to include an element of local ownership to share more widely the benefits of our energy transition. In 2018, we reached 780 MW of community and locally-owned renewable energy capacity, and we remain on track to achieve 1 GW by 2030.
Alongside our support for renewables, Welsh Government's policy objective is to avoid the continued extraction of fossil fuels in all its forms. Today, I am launching a consultation on our draft coal policy to support a responsible transition. As we end our reliance on coal, on which Wales's modern economy was built, we look to the contribution Wales can make to the marine energy revolution. We've invested in 10 marine energy projects, which have secured more than £100 million of European investment, in both north and south Wales.
I have described some of the important progress being made in Wales, and in the coming weeks we will publish a Welsh Government engagement plan, setting out how we will engage all communities and industries in Wales to strengthen our collective efforts. This will include our plans for a digital Climate Week for Wales in November to support the development of our next all-Wales low-carbon plan for 2021 to 2026.
I hope all Members of the Senedd will encourage all public bodies, businesses and communities in Wales to be part of creating a truly all-Wales plan to overcome the climate emergency, supporting our economy to recover from the impact of COVID-19, creating new industries and jobs, to deliver a prosperous, healthier and more equal Wales. Diolch.

Andrew RT Davies AC: Thank you, Minister, for your statement this afternoon on this very important subject, obviously building on the announcement that you as a Government made last year, supported, I believe, by all the parties in the Assembly at that time. I'd like to touch on, first of all, your point in your statement around resilience, and, obviously, with the COVID crisis, you've had to make some reallocations within your budget. The regulatory body that, obviously, oversees much of this work is Natural Resources Wales. They've had a realignment in their budget of some £7.5 million. How confident are you that the regulator—? And I've been as critical of NRW as anyone, but, if they haven't got the tools to do the job, it's going to be very challenging for them to build that resilience into either flood prevention or other fields of the environment. So, how confident are you, with that budget cut, that they will be able to meet the expectations you're placing on them to make improvements in this area and live up to your expectations?
I'd also like to point out about Government delivery, when it comes to tree planting, which is another part of your statement that has been constantly raised time and time again, last year, only 80 hectares of fresh tree planting was undertaken in Wales, against a target of 2,000 hectares. Your statement, obviously, is littered with various commitments, various goals, various objectives—on something that is as simple as tree planting, which has been such a longstanding commitment of this Government for the last 10 years plus, each year, it has been getting worse and worse for tree planting in Wales, it has. So, how confident can we be as Assembly Members—and, indeed, the people of Wales when they're reading your statement—that you're going to be able to deliver on those commitments when something as plain as this target that the Government itself set itself has been missed by a country mile? I think we need to have real confidence that you're able to step up to the plate on that front.

Thank you. [Interruption.] No. No, sorry—you've had more than two minutes, and it's a minute for a contribution. So, thanks, and there's a couple of questions in there. So, Lesley Griffiths.

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you, Andrew R.T. Davies, for your questions. Clearly, we are in a position we don't want to be in relation to having to repurpose and reset our budget in light of the COVID-19 pandemic, and I absolutely understand people's concerns around the budget of Natural Resources Wales. I think you will have heard me say in my oral Assembly questions session last week that we are continuing to work with NRW; I met with the chair and chief executive last week to look at what flexibility we are able to offer them to make sure that they can fulfil all their statutory duties and, as you say, the things that they are responsible for on our behalf.We are making sure they have that flexibility. There are ongoing discussions between officials and NRW, as well as myself and the chair and chief executive, and I do hope, as we go through the year, I will be able to provide that assurance to Members.
In relation to forestry, you are quite right, we have not been, and are still not, in a position that I would want to be when it comes to the number of fresh trees that we are planting. You'll be aware of the strategy that we set out around increasing woodland by at least 2,000 hectares per year from 2020 to 2030, and we are building up to that. As you say, last year was disappointing. A lot of that was due to the timing of the rural development programme funding, and the funds that we made available last year will support tree planting in the upcoming planting season this winter that's coming up now. Last year, we did fund the replanting of 1,500 hectares of trees to restock existing woodland.
We have taken some significant steps to increase the amount of woodland by launching a new window of Glastir woodland creation. That's had a fourfold increase this year in the budget to £8 million, so I hope that shows the commitment, and I hope that gives you confidence that that funding is available. I think it's really important we work with our partners to make sure we fulfil our targets.You'll be aware that we've also begun to establish a national forest for Wales, which was a First Minister's manifesto commitment, and, just last week, we launched a new scheme to create new woodlands near local communities.
So, Government can't do it on its own, and I would hope that we will all encourage people to have a look at those new woodland schemes that we've had. We've got a number of demonstration projects this year, and that includes a £2.1 million community woodland scheme, which, as I mentioned, was launched last week.

Llyr Gruffydd AC: Well, tree planting wasn't disappointing, Minister—it's quite embarrassing, to be frank. But there we are. And there's a lot of catching up to be done, and I'm not convinced that the current trajectory that you're offering is going to be enough. But I hadn't appreciated that we're limited to such an extent on time, so I'll have to move on.
You talk a good game very often, and you've been doing so on the circular economy for a number of years now. This Government could have introduced a deposit-return scheme years ago if it had wished to do, but you haven't. We're still waiting for decisions on banning single-use plastic. We're still waiting on decisions to be done around introducing greater producer responsibility. So, give us a date, Minister. Tell us when we will see these being implemented instead of being talked about, as you have been doing for the last 10 years.
I welcome the reference to 76 houses, of course—the net zero carbon homes—being built in Ruthin, as you can imagine. But, of course, we're way behind the curve on an international level in that respect. So, what's happening to mainstream these housing techniques and these kinds of houses into the developments that are happening, and not still being referred to as these novel projects that you can flag up in oral statements now and again?
Could you tell us what role the Welsh Government will be playing to support the proposed tidal lagoon that's been announced today at Mostyn? I'd like to understand the role that Government is playing to make that a reality, particularly following the bad news in relation to the Swansea Bay tidal lagoon. We need to look now to Mostyn to try and unlock some of that potential that we know we have around the Welsh coast.
And, finally, the Welsh Government's energy service. Well, it's all about scale and pace, isn't it, and I've raised this with you before. What plans have you got to ramp up some of this work, because, since its establishment in 2018, of course, this Parliament has declared a climate emergency. So, in the meantime, has its work intensified? Because we know that achieving a 20 per cent efficiency saving across Welsh domestic housing stock will need to target 870,000 households, at a cost of £5 billion. So, are we still going to bump along, or are we serious about the transitional change that we need to see?

Lesley Griffiths AC: Diolch, Llyr, for those questions. In response to the deposit scheme and the single use, both of those sit within the portfolio of Hannah Blythyn. I'm certainly aware that the deposit scheme—the issue around ensuring there weren't perverse outcomes was very important, and one of the reasons that we hadn't taken that forward. But I'm sure the Deputy Minister will be able to provide you with a date, as you request, in due course.
Around the—. The circular economy is very important, and you'll be aware of the £6.5 million fund that was launched earlier this year to illustrate the approach that we're developing in the context of the strategy, as it's obviously designed to support the wider use of recycled material. And I know the Waste and Resources Action Programme has awarded the first capital grants under the £6.5 million fund that I referred to to Welsh manufacturers. But, as I say, that sits within Hannah Blythyn's portfolio.
I thought it was very exciting to hear about the tidal lagoon in Mostyn. I've always thought that was something that could be taken forward, and it has lots of other benefits apart from energy; you'll be aware of the impact it could have on flooding, for instance. So, my officials will continue to work very closely in relation to that. Tomorrow, myself and, I think, Ken Skates are also attending a marine energy summit. And, just this morning, I met with Innogy energy, who, as you'll be aware, are expanding the windfarm off the coast of north Wales. And we spoke this morning, following the devastating news, as you referred to, yesterday in relation to Airbus, about looking to see if workers of Airbus have got those transferable skills that might be required. I think it's really important that we have a look at that. As you know, around the Wales energy service, I brought forward a report today, which will fully bring you up to date with all the issues to which you refer.

David J Rowlands AC: Whilst we acknowledge and welcome all the green projects you've outlined in your report, Minister, I have to return to the subject that R.T. Davies mentioned earlier on, and that's the business of tree planting. I'm not going to go into the details of it; I've got the details in front of me now. You have given a fairly comprehensive answer to R.T.'s question, but I have to say that we can't have any meaningful discussion on the mitigation of climate change without addressing our record on tree planting in Wales. And we have to look at the other aspects of tree planting—their effect on stemming floods, which are having a devastating effect on many communities in Wales, often outlined in contributions to Plenary debates, and, again, said to be another manifestation of global warming, although there's no scientific evidence that this is a man-made phenomenon.
But we have to say that the Minister for economy and infrastructure and skills has emphasised that recovery from the COVID-19 pandemic in Wales is to be a green-led economy. Now, surely, trees, and all the environmentally friendly products that can be produced from the timber they yield, must play an important part in that new, green economy. Woodlands provide many of the things we need and use—construction materials, paper pulp and woodchip, packaging and pallets, as well as wood fuel for power plants. Timber and wood products also offer a cost-effective and valuable alternative to fossil-fuel-rich materials, such as steel and concrete. And there are, of course, all the by-products of the forest: non-timber products, such as game, honey, berries, fungi—the list is quite endless. It could be said the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015 demands that you produce the forests that you have already said that you would produce.

Lesley Griffiths AC: I would never say that we are planting enough trees, and it is incredibly disappointing to have had last year's figures. But I hope that the policies we're bringing forward, the funding I referred to in my answer to Andrew—that we've increased it fourfold—shows the commitment to doing that. Also, you'll be aware of our agricultural scheme that we will be bringing forward; there's 'Sustainable Farming and our Land'—that has particular focus around planting more trees. So, it's really important that we continue to have those discussions with our farmers to make sure that any barriers—. And I've always found, talking about tree planting to farmers, that they're very keen to find opportunities to be able to help us with our tree-planting targets, but sometimes there have been barriers put in place—with the common agricultural policy, for instance. So, we do have—. There's an opportunity, post-EU transition, to make sure that our new agricultural scheme does support us.
I agree with you about—. We've made it very clear that our recovery from COVID-19 should be a green recovery. And I think using Welsh timber for housing is an area that the Minister for Housing and Local Government is always talking to me about—she wants to see more Welsh timber used. You mentioned all the benefits of producing more timber, so that's an area that, again, we are working on. I also think, on the green recovery, we need to lock in people's behaviours as well. You will have heard me say on previous occasions during the pandemic that we've seen more people cycling and walking, and more people working from home, and that's helped us reduce our carbon emissions and we need to lock in that behaviour. So, I outlined various schemes that we're bringing forward and significant funding to enable that to happen.

Mike Hedges AC: Can I also thank the Minister for her statement? Can I start off by saying that I have serious concerns about how climate change is affecting the weather? Anyone who went to school in the 1970s will remember almost continual drizzle. Now, when it rains, we have torrential rain and flooding. There have been more British floods this year than the first 50 years of the last century, putting it into some sort of context. Carbon burns and forms carbon dioxide, which traps heat. We know about greenhouse gases; we know that Venus is hotter than Mercury despite it being a lot, lot further away. Can I ask people just to study the science, not make things up?
Does the Minister agree that we need more tree soak-away areas and to widen the rivers and streams and put bends in them to reduce the risk of flooding? On trees, I think it’s quite straightforward: we set area targets and make someone responsible in each area for achieving those targets. Setting a target for Wales is never going to be achieved, because it’s everybody’s responsibility and nobody’s.
We need to plan to deal with the changes in weather and its effect on lots of communities, including my own. We also need to reduce the greenhouse gases being released because that’s just going to make it worse. It affects all of our communities; it affects all of us, and it’s something that we are expected to do something about.

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you, Mike Hedges. I think you’re quite right about the weather. It’s hard to believe that it was only during February recess when the First Minister and I were visiting areas, particularly around the Rhondda, that had been devastated by storm Dennis. The previous week, I’d been visiting Llanrwst up in north Wales that had been devastated by storm Ciara. And then, ifwe needed to be reminded that it’s not just in the winter, I think it was two weeks ago today, around Pentre again, that we had, I think it was, in 15 minutes, a month’s worth of rain. So, we are clearly seeing a pattern.
I went to school in the 1970s and I certainly remember lots of people referring to rain 'spitting', but we don’t see that now, you’re right: we have these torrential rain storms, unfortunately. So, we do need to look at our flooding defences. We’ve put significant funding into flood defences, but we don’t just want to see concrete; we want to see those natural solutions as well, and obviously trees form part of that. And you’re right: it is everybody’s responsibility. Government can’t do it on its own and we all need to look at how we can plant more trees. And that’s why I’m excited about the Local Places for Nature funding, because I think the impact of £10,000 just on a local area could be very significant. So, we need to do all we can to encourage that.
You’re quite right, again, about individuals. So, I hope Members will have picked up about our low-carbon heroes, and that, as we look towards the COVID-19 pandemic, we want to hear from people on how they changed their lifestyle during the COVID pandemic to see how we can achieve that carbon-neutral public sector, for instance, that we all want to see. And I referred to more people walking, more people cycling, more people working from home. One of the stories I’ve been told this week from someone is that they haven’t bought any new clothes or furniture; they’ve upcycled and recycled in a way that they haven’t done before. We’re seeing more people growing their own vegetables. So, I think it would be really good to capture all those stories and then, hopefully, make people realise that it’s about all of us changing our behaviour. And we are going to ask a great deal of people, but in order to make a difference, we are going to have to change our lifestyles.

David Melding AC: Minister, I notice that the Future Generations Commissioner for Wales devoted a lot of her recent report to housing and noted that less than half of the new homes that we need to build each year are currently being built, and emissions from the housing sector, although down by nearly a third since 1990, that decrease has slowed considerably in recent years. So, it seems to me that we need to set a target that’s much more ambitious for new house building and we need to build better. So, will you now look at this and work with your colleague Julie James to ensure that it receives both the policy and the financial priority needed to make housing fit for a cleaner environment?

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you, David Melding. And, yes, I'm certainly very happy to speak to my ministerial colleague, the Minister for Local Government and Housing. As I say, we do talk quite a lot about housing, and she's very keen to use more timber. I mentioned, and I referred to the innovative housing programme. We've also obviously had the consultation on Part L and Part F of the building regulations and what we want to avoid is expensive retrofitting down the line. We know that, in order to retrofit the current housing stock—. We know we've got some of the oldest housing stock in Wales and that requires energy efficiency measures. We need to avoid that at all costs. We need to make sure that the houses we're building now don't have those sorts of problems. These are discussions that I do have continually with the housing Minister.
I hope, when I was the housing Minister, we made some significant strides, and I know the Minister is talking to developers about how we can do that going forward, but those are ongoing discussions. Decarbonising the housing stock has to be a priority for the Welsh Government and it is for me and it is for Julie James. And I know she's made it very clear, in her response to the affordable housing review, that the expectation is that social housing providers will lead the way in terms of building the next generation of homes for Wales and that they're built to near-zero-carbon standards.

Jenny Rathbone AC: Sticking with housing then, for the time being, that's absolutely right, and the social housing that's being built is of a much better standard than most of the private sector that's on offer. And that's why, it seems to me, that having consulted on Part L, I would urge the Government to get on with actually implementing a much higher standard of Part L so that we only have homes built to zero-carbon standards in the future. Because otherwise we're going to simply have to retrofit the houses that are being built today, as was pointed out by John Gummer in his frustration last week over the lack of seriousness with which the Prime Minister seems to be taking this climate emergency.
I completely agree that we have to have a green recovery and not simply go back to our old ways. So, not only do we need to decarbonise our housing stock, but we need to decarbonise our transport, and reallocating road space to active travel is very welcome—this £15million you mentioned in your statement. But I also would like to ask you how we're going to decarbonise our food system, because, at the moment, our food system is organised to suit the large supermarkets. For example, eggs laid in north Wales currently have to travel all the way to Norwich to be packaged by a large supermarket, into their boxes, and then they go back to north Wales to be sold as Welsh eggs. This is really obviously very, very expensive of carbon emissions and we need—

Can you come to a conclusion please?

Jenny Rathbone AC: —a food system that is much more localised, so that people can buy local food from local producers and there are far fewer food miles. So, I wonder if you could tell us how we're going to do that. Thank you.

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you, Jenny. So, around the Part L consultation, as I said, the current consultation does outline our proposals to improve the energy efficiency of new dwellings in Wales from 2020 to 2025. I mentioned in my previous answer that we want to ensure that we don't build houses that do need retrofitting in 25 years or 50 years down the line. This year, we will make a significant and necessary step change in our energy and carbon performance in new housing. Our preferred option is a 37 per cent saving on current carbon emissions, and those proposals include fabric performance, as well as an increased role for renewables and/or low-carbon heating systems.
I mentioned in my statement that we are proposing phasing out the use of high-carbon fossil fuels, and we want to move to a cleaner way of heating our homes with the introduction of low-carbon heating, and, of course, renewable energy generation is very important. When I was speaking to Inergy this morning—. Those community benefits are very important to me and you'll be aware of the targets that we set.
Food miles is, again, an area where I think we've made real improvements during the COVID-19 pandemic.People have really appreciated our local Welsh food and drink producers in a way that, perhaps, they hadn't done before, and what we want to do is lock in that behaviour. So, we have a variety of schemes that we're promoting and supporting to ensure that we continue to do that.
I know that you're very interested in horticulture, and again, that's an area—. It's only 1 per cent of the agricultural sector, and it would be good if we could produce more of our fruit and veg in Wales, and I'm looking at ways that we can do that. I know that you and I have had many discussions about that, but I hope to bring some announcements to the Senedd later this year.

Thank you very much, Minister.

9. Debate: Statutory Instrument Consent Memorandum on the Direct Payments to Farmers (Legislative Continuity) Act 2020 (Consequential Amendments) Regulations 2020

Item 9 on our agenda is the debate on the Statutory Instrument Consent Memorandum on the Direct Payments to Farmers (Legislative Continuity) Act 2020 (Consequential Amendments) Regulations 2020, and I call on the Minister for Environment, Energy and Rural Affairs to move that motion. Lesley Griffiths.

Motion NDM7340 Rebecca Evans
To propose that the Senedd agrees, in accordance with Standing Order 30A.10, that the Secretary of State makes The Direct Payments to Farmers (Legislative Continuity) Act 2020 (Consequential Amendments) Regulations 2020, in accordance with the draft laid in Table Office on 4 May 2020.

Motion moved.

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. The Direct Payments to Farmers (Legislative Continuity) Act 2020 (Consequential Amendments) Regulations 2020 (the regulations) make consequential amendments required because the EU law governing the 2020 direct payment scheme for farmers, established under the common agricultural policy, was incorporated into UK law on exit day, rather than at the end of the implementation period.
Regulations 2, 3 and 4 make consequential amendments to the Interpretation Act 1978, the Statutory Instruments Act 1946, and the Legislation (Wales) Act 2019 to ensure that the Direct Payments to Farmers (Legislative Continuity) Act 2020 and EU legislation incorporated into domestic law under that Act are treated in the same way as EU legislation incorporated into domestic law under the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018.
It should be noted that the territorial extent and application of the regulations is UK wide, with provisions having different application depending on the legislation being amended. By way of example, the changes made by the regulations to the Legislation (Wales) Act 2019 extend to England and Wales and apply in relation to Wales. The Interpretation Act 1978's extent is UK wide. The Statutory Instruments Act 1946 extends to England, Wales and Scotland, with elements applying to Northern Ireland.
I believe that it is appropriate and proportionate to deal with the amendments in these regulations due to the territorial extent of the enactments being amended. Furthermore, making the necessary consequential amendments in one instrument helps to promote the accessibility of the law during this period of change. I note that the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee considered the regulations on 18 May and come to the conclusion. Diolch.

Thank you. Can I call on the Chair of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee, Mick Antoniw?

Mick Antoniw AC: Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I intend to keep my remarks this afternoon brief, but I do wish to welcome the fact that the Welsh Government has tabled a motion for debate on this statutory instrument consent memorandum. The reasons for this is that it is an important point of principle that the Senedd makes a decision on whether to permit UK Ministers to amend primary legislation in devolved areas.
As a committee we considered the memorandum at our meeting on 18 May 2020, and we laid our report on 2 June. Now, as the Minister has said, the regulations that are the subject of the memorandum ensure that the Direct Payments to Farmers (Legislative Continuity) Act 2020 and the EU legislation incorporated into domestic law under that Act are treated in the same way as EU legislation incorporated into domestic law under the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018. So, as stated in our report, we are content with the memorandum.

Thank you. The Minister, to reply.

Lesley Griffiths AC: I'll just say thank you to the Chair and to the committee for their comments.

Thank you. So, the proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? I don't see any objections, therefore the motion is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

10. Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee Debate on the effects of COVID-19 on Wales's Economy, Infrastructure and Skills

Item 10 on our agenda this afternoon is the Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee debate on the effects of COVID-19 on Wales's economy, infrastructure and skills, and I call on the Chair of the committee to move the motion. Russell George.

Motion NDM7341 Russell George
To propose that the Senedd:
Notes the reports of the Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee: 'The impact of COVID-19: Summary of initial findings', which was laid in the Table Office on 4 June 2020, and 'The impact of COVID-19: Skills—early findings', which was laid in the Table Office on 19 June 2020.

Motion moved.

Russell George AC: Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer, and I move the motion in my name. I'd like to thank the Presiding Officer for allowing this debate earlier than would have taken place in most circumstances.

Russell George AC: Thankfully, Deputy Presiding Officer, due to the hard work of our NHS staff and because Welsh citizens have played their part and stayed at home, we have, we hope, passed the high-water mark. However, as the tide recedes, it is, of course, revealing an economic emergency, which is why I requested this earlier debate. Yesterday's announcement from Airbus is part of that unfolding emergency. I know everyone in this Chamber will want to be thinking about the people affected and will want to be reassured that the Welsh and UK Governments are straining every area to protect our key industries and the jobs that they provide. I also think about those who were affected by the Laura Ashley closures in my own constituency. Airbus, of course, is a big player in north-east Wales's skills sector, and so, as well as job losses, we'll be losing valuable training opportunities, and the pandemic and economic emergency will have an ongoing effect for the whole of Wales's skills sector and transport network, so it's important that this debate focuses on these areas as well.
Deputy Presiding Officer, the committee took evidence from a range of stakeholders, including business leaders, unions, training and transport providers on the effects of the pandemic on Wales's economy, infrastructure and skills, and we have released two reports and issued a number of letters outlining several issues that need, in our view, urgent attention. However, more positively, our work has uncovered opportunities that we as a committee think need to be seized on in order to rebuild our economy. Last month, we saw a record drop in the UK's GDP, and this drop is, of course, a natural consequence of asking people to stay at home. Ground will be regained as we come out of lockdown—of course, that is what we hope. However, even with a bounce-back, we're sadly facing an unprecedented recession. That's the sad likelihood, and, in light of this impending recession, it is vital that the Government acts swiftly to save businesses and jobs. Business leaders warned us about areas of the economy that will need more specific help than others in terms of a sectorial approach and to ensure that support is targeted correctly. A new round of business support is a good opportunity to fill in the gaps in the original COVID support. Although the original offer was very much welcomed, there were, of course, gaps especially felt by smaller businesses and microbusinesses as they fell through some of those gaps. As the Government develops its response to the recession, these businesses, we hope, as a committee, will not be failed again.
Last week's announcement about start-up funding was, of course, a step in the right direction for smaller businesses. When asked about the economy, the Minister told us that he wanted to 'build it back better'. This is a great aspiration, and, whilst the economy is in grave danger, support can be targeted to help rebalance and grow targeted sectors. To ensure that the Government is seizing this opportunity, I would like the Minister to set out what 'build it back better' means to him and what the Government will be doing to achieve this goal.
As Wales unlocks, reopening the economy in a safe way will also be key. Union representatives told the committee that they supported the Welsh Government's inclusion of the 2m rule in regulations, but they were worried about its enforcement, and the Government, I think, needs to explain how safety will be ensured, particularly in the light of the recent outbreaks we've seen at some food plants across the country.

Russell George AC: As the economy and skills sector are intertwined, bad news for the economy is, sadly, bad news for skills. As I come on to skills, I think I'd first like to acknowledge the key role that the health and social care apprentices have played in an effort to contain and respond to the pandemic. Witnesses were keen to tell us how apprentices had stepped up to the challenge over these last few months and how much effort they'd been putting into the national response, and I'm sure that Members would want to join me in commending these efforts. However, this additional workload will be taking a toll on apprentices' health and well-being, and the Government must support all of our apprentices through these times, and the committee heard that many apprentices have been furloughed and that some apprentices have been laid off. Being furloughed and, of course, being laid off will have consequences for their own well-being.
Looking forward to the future, I am concerned, and as a committee we were concerned, about the looming spike in youth unemployment. The committee heard evidence that employers will be looking for experience, so people leaving education this summer will be at a disadvantage in an already depressed labour market. So, as a period of unemployment is likely to scar a young person's future, the Government, I think, must intervene by developing skills support to give young people the experience they need to compete. However, there is also an opportunity here. The skills sector can be used to help stimulate economic growth and train people for high-skill and high value-added jobs.
As Wales emerges from the lockdown, maintaining safety and managing with much reduced fare revenue is going to be a huge challenge for the public transport operators. Sadly, the ONS data on coronavirus deaths shows public transport drivers are particularly at risk from the pandemic. And public confidence in safety, of course, is also important. Transport Focus's research indicates that around a third of passengers will not return to public transport until they feel safe, and, to maintain safe social distancing, buses and trains will be limited to around 10 per cent to 20 per cent of their normal capacity. In fact, bus operators told us that that means a double-decker that usually carries 70 passengers will only be able to carry 20. Taxis and private hire vehicles do not lend themselves to social distancing for obvious reasons, and union representatives felt drivers should be given black cab-style screens to protect themselves and encourage passenger confidence. Although local public transport will be operating at reduced capacity, their overheads will largely remain the same, causing financial pressures for operators. Bus operators told us that clarity on the future of funding for public transport providers is urgently needed. Transport Focus's polling said that nearly half of public transport users are planning to use their cars more, so I think this is a real issue to the committee. Public confidence in services and public transport capacity will be a key to avoid increased congestion and carbon dioxide emissions and reduced air quality, and a short-term switch to car travel would become regular behaviour. However, as with the economy and skills sector, there are also opportunities here as well. People are open to the idea of active travel. I think we've all seen many more people walking and running and cycling during the lockdown period. Bike shops are selling out across the UK and Europe, so the Government needs to act to maintain that momentum and support the modal change to ensure that as many people as possible choose active travel over their cars.
To sum up my opening comments, Deputy Presiding Officer, although the health emergency is, we hope, under control, it has been replaced by an economic emergency and the Government must spend as much effort tackling that as the virus. Whilst I support the Minister's aspiration to build back better, we really need to see details of what that actually means. These are truly unprecedented times and we are presented with a huge challenge. However, with that challenge comes a unique set of opportunities to redesign our economy, our transport network and our skills sector for the better, and the Government of course must seize these opportunities. I look forward to the contribution from Members this afternoon.

Huw Irranca-Davies AC: I thank the committee for their reports, as they've shone a helpful light on the economic response to the COVID crisis from the Welsh Government and the UK Government, and also how partners, like local government and Business Wales, have really stepped up to help businesses and employers and employees through these unprecedented and difficult times. It is worth noting, of course, that our Government in Wales has really stepped up to the mark, providing the most generous package of support across the UK and trying to fill some of the gaps left by the UK Government support. This has really shown the positive difference that devolution can make, though we do still have gaps. In respect of the UK Government's support and putting aside the gaps, we have to acknowledge the scale of investment, not least in the furlough scheme, but I'd strongly urge our Welsh Government Ministers to join other devolved Governments and, indeed, the UK Labour frontbench calls for extending the furlough and support for particular sectors, including, by the way, aviation, but also parts of our tourism and hospitality sectors, and our arts and cultural sectors, too.
Now, this is the moment when the Prime Minister needs to show that he really is a Prime Minister for the whole of the United Kingdom, not just a Prime Minister for England. The 'Build, build, build' programme announced this week is small, small, small and, indeed, is currently England, England, England only. So, I hope the Prime Minister will take the opportunity to work with Welsh Government to identify Welsh priorities for UK investment right now in Wales, including support for aviation, and that should include, as well, major long overdue UK investment in steel, in Wales marine and tidal renewables, and in a new generation of automotive production and more. It should make good the decade-long UK underinvestment in rail infrastructure in Wales, and support for Welsh Government to boost the skills and apprenticeships and job schemes for young people in Wales and much more. There is a real opportunity for the UK Government.
This is a time for bold decisions on the scale of the post-war Attlee Labour Government and with all Governments across the UK working together. Indeed, let us have that UK COVID response emergency budget before the summer break, which can respond to the scale of the crisis and also give the Prime Minister the real opportunity to show that Wales is not some afterthought from a desk in Westminster.
Now, returning to the current support for business and jobs, the committee has done sterling work in identifying the gaps, and I recognise these from my own constituency cases, including that of Chris, who runs a gym. He took over a derelict former club, turned it into a home not just for the gym, but for a thriving group of families with children with special needs, and as the base for a local football club and more. But he's missed out on all the support, including the recent welcome changes that drop the VAT threshold to £50,000. It left him just a few thousand pounds short of the threshold for qualifying. So, I just wonder, Minister, if there can be some flexibility for Business Wales to work with small businesses that they know, to avoid these heartbreaking narrow misses?
In giving evidence to the committee, some of the obvious gaps that were highlighted included the self-employed people who didn't have recent accounts, businesses that don't operate out of a property as such and companies that are not VAT registered. I know that Welsh Government has continued to tweak and adjust the support to respond to some of these gaps, and I'd be grateful if Ministers could keep on listening, keep being flexible, to respond to these ongoing concerns, but also to keep engaging with the UK Treasury to respond to and fill these gaps on a UK-wide basis. The UK Treasury has incredibly deep pockets, and, indeed, they've recently discovered the location of the allusive magic money tree, which Conservative Chancellors argued for a decade of austerity simply did not exist. I'm glad they've found it.
We've just experienced the sharpest economic downturn since the third quarter of 1979. The Bank of England economist Andy Haldane suggests that we could be on track for a v-shaped recovery with faster than expected regrowth, although he wraps his projection with many, many economic health warnings. It could go very differently indeed.
We certainly now know already that places that have faced long-term structural challenges—deep-seated social and economic disadvantage—will be the most vulnerable. So, we need the investment hereon to redouble its focus on those areas, including those places and people in my constituency of Ogmore, where the benefits will be greatest for the poorest of investment, where we can lift people the highest, and where we level up through activist Government intervention, rather than the free market devil take the hindmost. So, let's make this COVID economic response one that levels up across the UK, levels up in Wales and levels up in Ogmore, with Governments at all levels playing their part. I thank the committee for their reports, because they are useful in directing some of those efforts. Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd.

Mark Isherwood AC: The Wales Tourism Alliance,the Federation of Small Businesses Wales and CBI Wales told the committee that the tourism and hospitality industries would be disproportionately affected. I submitted an urgent written question to the First Minister on 30 April, asking him to respond to calls for a specific plan to support tourism businesses in Wales and for consideration to be given to models of international best practice that would help our rural and coastal tourism businesses to survive. Other than a holding response, no reply has yet been received.
The Wales Tourism Alliance told the committee that, although the support provided by Government at all levels had been quite generous, some businesses have fallen through the gaps, particularly wedding venues, bed and breakfasts and guest accommodation. Small bed and breakfasts are a mainstay of many local economies across north Wales—real businesses providing essential income for their owners. However, they have been unable to access the Welsh Government's £10,000 business grant, because the criteria states that they must be eligible for small business rates relief, but the rules say that they cannot be unless they provide accommodation for more than six persons.
When I questioned the economy Minister about this, he stated that the eligibility criteria checker for the second phase of the economic resilience fund, for new applications, would open mid-June. Having got their hopes up, when it opened, bed and breakfast businesses told me that, according to the checker, they were still not eligible. When I again questioned the economy Minister about this, he stated that he would have to understand why they were not eligible. I therefore wrote to him with evidence from legitimate bed and breakfast businesses in north Wales, detailing their ineligibility for this or any other scheme. In his reply last week, he claimed that the support package in Wales is the most comprehensive and generous in the UK. In reality, grants are available to bed and breakfast operators in England and Scotland who did not qualify for any other COVID-19 grant support schemes, but operators in Wales have been denied access to equivalent grants. As one told me:
'We're already £7,400 in debt in the past three months, and we've lost out on around £28,000' worth of sales in this time. This is a total emergency and grant help is needed.'
The Wales Tourism Alliance told the committee that changed Welsh Government requirements for self-catering properties to qualify for business grants were being used to penalise bona fide businesses. Although the local government Minister told Members that, if a self-catering business can prove that they are a legitimate business, the authority has the discretion to pay the grant, the Federation of Small Businesses Wales stated that some local authorities have been sending e-mails out, saying, 'This isn't discretionary. We've been mandated to do this by Welsh Government.'
I was contacted by a large number of legitimate holiday letting businesses whose experience with this was causing real hardship. They wrote that the guidance from the Welsh Government clearly discriminates against holiday letting businesses, and that there was no consultation with the industry. I have since successfully represented many of these businesses in north-west Wales, although it took interventions over many weeks before councils reviewed their applications and used their discretion to award them business grants.
Then, two weeks ago, I was contacted by a legitimate holiday letting business in Flintshirethat had been told that their grant application had been unsuccessful because all of the Welsh Government's additional qualifying criteria have to be met. You must despair.
The committee's recommendation that the Welsh Government should revisit changes made to the guidance for non-domestic business rate relief and ensure that they are neither penalising legitimate businesses nor increasing the workload on local authorities is therefore pivotal.
On 15 May, the Confederation of Passenger Transport presented a proposal to Welsh Government that would enable operators to ramp up bus services with full costings for all Welsh bus operators. In correspondence last week, however, the industry states that they have still not received a considered official response, and Wales is now the only country in the United Kingdom that has not agreed funding for transport operators to begin to ramp up services to cover costs for additional services.
The committee's recommendation that the Welsh Government should inform the committee of its assessment of the current availability of buses and trains in Wales and whether this is sufficient to ensure effective socially distanced public transport services can be provided and give details of any action being taken to ensure that there is sufficient capacity is therefore also pivotal.

Helen Mary Jones AC: I'm very grateful to have had the opportunity to participate in the evidence sessions that have led to this report, and, like other Members, I'm very grateful for the evidence that we've received. I think we must be fair and say—. At the beginning of my contribution, I want to say that the emergency response that the Welsh Government has taken was broadly welcomed by most of our witnesses. Of course, things aren't perfect; there was an acknowledgement that there were gaps, and I think the Minister understands that himself. But there was a sense that there had been some real co-operation with the sector and with social partners and that this had been something of a—to use a bit of a cliché—team Wales effort. But, I know that the Minister understands that there is a lot more to do, and our evidence proves that.
I want today, Dirprwy Lywydd, to make some general comments in response to the three reports and then to highlight some particular things in the areas of skills. We know—the evidence was really clear to us—that there are going to be some businesses that will require longer term support. Those might include some transport providers, they will certainly include some hospitality businesses, that may not be able to partially open or may not be able to open profitably. They will certainly include businesses in the culture sector, things like cinemas and theatres where, again, even if social distancing allows them to open, they can't open and make any money, and that will apply to some other tourist attractions too.
It's really important for these businesses—they acknowledge that they've received, many of them, short-term support—to know now what the longer term plans are so that they can plan. And I'm sure that none of us in this Senedd would want to lose some of those crucial parts of our tourism and hospitality infrastructure that will be so important for our economy as we recover.
We acknowledge, of course, that some of that support should come from the UK Government, and I want to ask the Minister again today about what progress he's had in asking for more flexible furlough support for some of those businesses that might not otherwise survive, that can't open, and particularly whether he can raise again the issue of those people who were changing jobs at the time.If there are to be changes to the furlough scheme, that would be the time to give some kind of recompense to the new-start furlough citizens who just were so unfortunate to be changing jobs at that time.
Looking further at hospitality businesses, we have, of course, supported Welsh Government's cautious approach to lifting the lockdown. We feel that it's the right thing to do. From the point of view of businesses, it would, of course, have been catastrophic to lift the lockdown too quickly and then see a spike and lead to another lockdown again. But I hope that the Minister understands that it's very difficult for some of the business owners that have been talking to me in recent days to see that McDonald's is open and people are eating their meals in the McDonald's car park and sometimes leaving a hideous mess afterwards, but good-quality local Welsh hospitality businesses have yet to be able to take advantage of those opportunities that some outside opening may be able to provide.
I know that the Minister is aware that local authorities are looking at how they might facilitate this with road closures, with extensions of pavements. I've been speaking, for example, to Ceredigion council. There is, of course, a complex pattern around licensing and around planning, and I want to ask the Minister today to commit to working closely with local authorities so that we can open up some of those spaces, while of course acknowledging the points that the First Minister made earlier—that that has to be done in such a way that doesn't, for example, negatively impact on people who are blind and partially sighted.
If I might briefly turn, then, Dirprwy Lywydd, to some of the points in the skills report specifically. Russell George has already referred to our recommendation around health and care apprentices. What those people, many of them young people, have done in the last few months is nothing short of extraordinary, and we do want to ask the Welsh Government to be aware of the need to protect their welfare and to ensure that they are given the support they need to get over what might, for some of them, have been complex and traumatic.
Recommendations 3 and 4 of the skills report that focus on work experience and youth unemployment are incredibly important. Those of us who are old enough to remember what happened to the Welsh economy in the 1980s will remember that there was a whole lost generation in many of our communities, who, having had a year or 18 months out of work, never really recovered, never made up that economic gap. We must not allow that to happen to those individuals, but we also cannot afford, as a nation, to waste those talents. That's therefore incredibly important that Welsh Government come forward with some really far-reaching schemes to address those issues.
Our recommendation 8 asks the Welsh Government to link up the skills agenda to economic development, to business support, and to business improvement, and, of course, crucially, to the fair work agenda. This is what needs to change now. The Welsh Government has done, I think, on the whole, a pretty good job in terms of emergency response, but now we have to, as the Minister often says, build back better, and that means building up in a joined-up manner.
I would say, Dirprwy Lywydd, that this crisis has shown us who we actually need when it comes to our workforce. We need carers, we've needed shop workers, we've needed delivery drivers, we've needed healthcare staff. Much of this, of course, work that tends to be done by women. Now, we've tended, in the past, to refer to those people as 'low skilled', and I don't know if anybody else in this Chamber has had the opportunity of looking after a sick or disabled relative themselves, but I can certainly tell you that the people—on the whole, women—who do that work are anything other than low skilled, having tried to do it myself to support family members. We need to change—

Can you come to a conclusion, please?

Helen Mary Jones AC: My apologies, Dirprwy Lywydd.

No, no, it's fine. Carry on.

Helen Mary Jones AC: We need to ensure that we change our mindset there, and when we talk about building back better, we've talked a lot about big infrastructure projects, but we also need to think about that work, that work that women do—the caring, the shop work, all of that. We need to value that work, we need to upskill those workers, and we need to pay them a decent living wage.
The Minister will have heard the evidence given by Chwarae Teg and others to the Equality, Local Government and Communities Committee yesterday, and I hope that he'll commit today to building a more equal society for women and a more equal economy for women being at the centre of his rebuilding plans.
I have other things to say, but the Dirprwy Lywydd has quite rightly ran out of patience. So, I'll draw my remarks to a close by once again saying how glad I am to have participated in this process and to commend these reports to the Senedd.

Thank you very much. Rhianon Passmore.

Rhianon Passmore AC: Thank you, Deputy Llywydd. I read with both alarm and agreement that the committee has considerable concerns about what it sees as one of the defining longer term challenges of this deadly pandemic: a likely dramatic spike in youth unemployment, a spike that, without action by Welsh Government, threatens to scar and stunt the employment prospects of a generation of young people and frustrate the national recovery.
Sadly, this is not new to us. As the Member for Islwyn, I know that the spectre of mass youth unemployment will ascend—[Inaudible.]—throughout the communities that I represent. I was politicised as a teenager by the devastation that was brought to us by the callous Tory economic policies of the Thatcher Government. I was sent to this Senedd by the people of Islwyn, following the ongoing devastation brought to the Islwyn valleys by the continuation of Thatcherite policies under the smokescreen of austerity, and the cruel and callous disinvestment ideology of the anti-public sector Cameron Government, well criticised by the United Nations.
So, today, Islwyn faces a future potentiality of further economic hardship from the callous C-19 pandemic and the trade drop-off of EU exit. As such, it is imperative that the UK Government does not slash and burn public services and its funding in dealing with the deficit post C-19.Deputy Llywydd, I support the committee's third recommendation, namely that the
'Welsh Government must take action to ensure high quality structured work experience opportunities, especially for people from deprived backgrounds, are part of Wales’ recovery plan.'
As Professor Ewart Keep from the department of education at Oxford warned the committee, the 'huge looming issue' of youth unemployment as tens of thousands of college and university students graduate this summer is stark. These young people face a labour market that has seen a collapse in demand, with a third of Wales's workforce furloughed or taking advantage of the Government's self-employment assistance scheme.
Deputy Llywydd,while on some key matters there may be consensus in the Senedd, there remains a critical and fundamental need for an effective inter-governmental systemic mechanism for the devolved nations. This missing infrastructure has never been more needed. Without effective working between the UK Government and the Welsh Government, and the UK then investing to meet the real needs of the people of Wales, we will once again return to a forgotten generation of young women and men. It is right that the Welsh Government is firmly requesting of the UK Treasury that the needs of Wales are met, both now during this pandemic, but also with mechanisms for the future, sustainable for future pandemics, crises and times of national challenge. And in parallel to the multiplicity of current Welsh Government interventions and Wales-only support packages during COVID, it is clear that Wales's First Minister and Minister for economy have a clear direction, drive and determination to both safeguard and protect the health and economic needs of our people to ensure that Wales is a place where nobody is left behind, and when the storm of COVID leaves us, a brighter, healthier and greener Wales is rebuilt, revealed and rediscovered. Diolch.

David J Rowlands AC: Can I first congratulate the Chair and the members of the EIS committee for their work in identifying the necessary steps that may be necessary to restart and reinvigorate the economy post COVID-19, which are contained in all of their 34 recommendations? Before I go into the report, I wish to make the point that we are still unaware of the situation surrounding the co-prosperity fund. That fund will supposedly take the place of the EU structural fund. As this fund will play a major part in how Wales will recover from the COVID crisis, we must all in this Chamber support the Minister in his efforts to secure a commitment from the UK Government as to how and when these funds will be allocated.
The report acknowledges that there has been broad-based support for the actions taken by both the UK and Welsh Governments in response to the COVID-19 pandemic. In particular, they pointed out the comment from Josh Miles from the Federation of Small Businesses that, thankfully, we had the Development Bank of Wales and Business Wales, which were able to respond quickly and effectively to the crisis.
There should be no doubt that COVID-19 may change the way we live and work forever, but we just do not know at this time by exactly how much. We must realise that, with so many imponderables, it is difficult for any Government to plan future economic strategies. The Minister for the economy has stated that the big strategic aims of fair work, decarbonisation, reducing regional economic inequalities have not changed, but we know some things will have to change, and it is important that these are identified and discussed and acted upon as soon as possible.
Wales has the highest proportion of businesses applying for the CJRS and the highest proportion of buy-in for UK Government schemes. Sadly, Wales and its people will once again be one of the regions that may suffer some of the highest number of job losses due to the pandemic.
There is one area, however, where I believe the Welsh Government could look to implement recovery strategies at this present time. It is said that upgrading of skills is one of the fastest ways of ensuring those who have lost their jobs will not stay unemployed for long periods. We believe the Welsh Government should, with urgency, look to establishing large-scale training centres. I would ask the Government to look at facilities at St Athan, where suitable buildings and even accommodation are available as the Ministry of Defence scales down its operations on the site. The Welsh Government could look to establish a Welsh national skills centre, building on, not replacing,those facilities that already exist. This could put Wales at the forefront of a revolution in providing skilled people ready work in the high-skilled sector. Such a high-profile facility would help attract investors in the high-tech industries, building, of course, on the establishment of the Aston Martin facility in St Athan.
So, can I add my own recommendation to the 34 already outlined by the Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee? Build a high-tech centre for vocational skills, if not at St Athan, then in some other part of Wales.

Thank you. Alun Davies.

Alun Davies AC: I'm grateful to you, Deputy Presiding Officer, and I'm grateful to the committee as well for the work that it's been doing on this. I think all of us have enjoyed the opportunity of reading through the reports of the committee and are grateful to both them and the staff and witnesses for the contributions that they've made.
We need to look hard at how we're going to ensure that the economic shock that we are seeing at the moment isn't simply an economic shock again for the poorest people in this country. We've seen from previous recessions that it is the poorest people, the poorest communities, that suffer the worst impact of these recessions, and we've seen economic shocks in the past have a dramatic impact on not simply the people who live in these communities today, but their children and grandchildren as well. Generations, as I think has already been described, are still feeling the effect of Thatcher's war against the Valleys of south Wales. We need to be able to look hard at how we do that. We are seeing at the moment the headlines of some really terrible job losses, and we've been discussing Airbus already today. But we're also seeing job losses taking place on a daily basis—smaller in number, but an enormous number of people and families and communities affected. I've seen in my own constituency numbers of people who are already being threatened with redundancy. The impact of COVID isn't going to be seen in the autumn—it's already being seen today.
I agree very much with the points that Huw Irranca-Davies made about the UK Government needing to extend the furlough scheme into the autumn. And I think we've all agreed, over the past two months, that the economic impact of UK Government schemes is something that we have appreciated, and it's been good to see the Welsh and UK Governments working together over the previous months. In that context, the Prime Minister's speech yesterday was all the more disappointing. It seemed to be a UK Government walking away from the people of this country, unable and unwilling to deliver the support that business and industry need. No cash in Wales, no investment for Wales, not a care for Wales—walking away from our key industries, our key employers and our people at a time when they needed that support.
So, I want to see the Welsh Government stepping up to the mark. We did it after the 2008 recession, of course, and saved many tens of thousands of jobs, and we need a real new deal, not the fake new deal that the UK Government were talking about yesterday, but a deal with the ambition and the vision that will invest in people and places. We need to see, I believe, for the Heads of the Valleys, for example, a jobs plan, an industrial strategy for the Heads of the Valleys, delivering on some of the conversations that we've already had, Minister, through the Tech Valleys scheme, investing in the strategic sites, whether it's Rhyd y Blew or Rassau or any of the other industrial estates across the A465 corridor—a jobs plan that brings together the skills and training with investment in connectivity. It's finally time that rail infrastructure was devolved. We saw yesterday that the UK Government are simply not going to invest in our railways. We need to do it ourselves and we need to ensure the devolution of rail infrastructure to let us do that.
But let me say this, Minister: I very much agree with what the Welsh Government's saying about 'build back better', but we need to have something left to build back upon, and we need to be able to have a clear priority—jobs, jobs, jobs. We need to protect existing employment. We need to protect our existing industrial base. We need to be able to protect town centres and industrial estates together. This is the biggest challenge we've faced as a Senedd, as a parliamentary democracy, in 20 years, the biggest challenge the Welsh Government has faced in two decades, and we need the ambition, the vision and the agility to meet that challenge. I want to see the Welsh Government using all the financial instruments and tools available to it, together with that rooted commitment to our communities. I've seen the Minister walk and stride through communities in his own constituency in north Wales and mine in the Valleys of south Wales. I know his commitment to those places and I know his commitment to our people. This is the challenge now, to make that commitment real.

Joyce Watson AC: The first thing that I want to say as a member of the committee was we heard overwhelming support from the Federation of Small Businesses, the Trades Union Congress and the Confederation of British Industry as to their satisfaction with the level of engagement with the Welsh Government and Welsh officials—I think it's worth saying that at the outset—and all the work that went behind that, in making sure that all the numerous schemes that were put into place immediately, in a very, very short time frame, were put forward through mechanisms that people could both apply to and receive the funds from that.
I'm not going to rehearse all the gaps that we've heard about; other people have already done that. But I listened closely yesterday to this 'build, build, build' announcement from the UK Government and immediately the one thing that struck me, apart from the very obvious that there are no consequentials so therefore there's no new money, so there's no care for Wales, was this old-fashioned idea again that you can bring out of a crisis jobs that actually only look at, really, one sector of the economy, and therefore you miss large numbers of people who need help out of those schemes immediately. And it's fairly obvious, if you look at the stats on construction, that means women will be left behind, because they don't feature in that economy anyway. The highest figure you will find is 11 per cent and, on site, it's simply 1 per cent. So, that isn't actually going to build much in the way of employment for those people outside of that.
Having said all of that, we have seen, in the very recent past, the agility of companies in Wales to step up and immediately put in processes and systems to deliver those things that we've needed, from ventilators to masks, or handwashes. So, they've been innovative and they've been fleet of foot in that innovation, and I think it's alluded to here in these recommendations. It's that, I think, that we could do to drive the economy forward as we come out.
The other sector, of course, that's been fleet of foot—and it's not capital investment that's needed—is the care sector, and Helen Mary quite rightly pointed to that. Evidence is already emerging about the impact of coronavirus on some individuals, and the ongoing care needs that those individuals will have. And that, really, is just in the first wave. I'm not wishing for a second wave; nobody is. But if we see a repeat of that, unfortunately we're also going to see greater needs within the care sector. So, we need some revenue investment as well as capital investment to take us out and take us forward. And it has been noted—quite rightly noted—that those are the people that we ultimately need to take society forward in times of extreme need. It is the case that they've been undervalued in the past, both within society's ways of thinking about people in the care sector but also in the remuneration that they've received for doing those jobs. So, I suppose my plea to you today, going forward, is to look for those individuals in terms of their training, their status, and let's not—. When we're talking about building back better, let's at least understand that those people who need us to build back better for them in their employment actually receive that recognition in all aspects.
And, of course, the other area that would have been addressed now, but it isn't, because we're in this particular time and space, is the bus services in Wales. There would have been a Bill finding its way through the Welsh Parliament at the moment, and there would have been many more people journeying through particularly my area in Wales on buses. That, sadly, is not the case at the moment, and, whilst I am really concerned that we don't leave people behind, I'm equally concerned that we don't literally leave them behind, stuck in rural Wales with no form of transport, because so many people— particularly people who don't have funds and young people, disabled people, elderly residents and free bus pass holders—rely on that mode of transport.

Can you come to a conclusion, please?

Joyce Watson AC: Thank you. I am.

Good.

Joyce Watson AC: So, I would request an update, really, Minister, on your thinking, if you can't deliver that Bill, on what you're going to do regarding bus services or public transport in mid and west Wales.

Thank you. Can I now call the Minister for Economy, Transport and North Wales, Ken Skates?

Ken Skates AC: Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd, and can I begin by thanking the committee Chair, Russell George, and its members for its work producing both incredibly valuable reports? And I'd also like to thank those who were able to provide evidence via video link in what has become, of course, the new norm for holding meetings at present. Of course, ordinarily, the Welsh Government would have formally responded to committee reports ahead of debates, but I recognise that the will to debate these important reports ahead of recess means that the Government will not be able to formally respond until next month, as requested.
There are 42 recommendations in total across both reports, so, unfortunately, I'll be unable to cover every one of them but, Deputy Presiding Officer, what I would say is that I think it's valuable reading both reports alongside the recently published UK Treasury Committee report on the UK Government's support for businesses and the economy, because there is some parallel concern across all three reports.
Dirprwy Lywydd, and committee members, what I can say regarding the two reports that have been produced by the EIS committee is that we have acted swiftly and decisively to help protect Welsh businesses from the impact of coronavirus. Our £1.7 billion business support package—it's the equivalent of 2.6 per cent of our gross value added—complements other UK schemes, and it means that companies in Wales have access to the most generous offer of help anywhere in the United Kingdom, as Huw Irranca-Davies identified.
We deliberately designed our Wales-only £500 million economic resilience fund to plug the gaps left by the UK Government's package of business support, and this is because we want to support as many businesses, as many jobs, as we can possibly do so during this incredibly challenging time.
We also know that our approach is working. Data from a recent Office for National Statistics survey indicates that, of all of the UK nations, Wales has by far—by far—the highest percentage of businesses to have applied for and accessed coronavirus-related business grants. The survey found that the figure for businesses accessing support in Wales is 32 per cent of the 260,000 businesses that we have. That contrasts with just 14 per cent of businesses accessing direct Government support in England, 21 per cent in Scotland and 24 per cent in Northern Ireland.
So, as a result of the £0.5 billion economic resilience fund, including, of course, Development Bank of Wales support, we've been able to help close to 8,000 businesses with more than £200 million of support that simply wouldn't have been available elsewhere, and that has led to tens of thousands of jobs being saved. Now, on Monday, we reopened the next phase of the economic resilience fund, providing more opportunities for microbusinesses, small and medium-sized enterprisesand large businesses to apply for funding. We'll also be extending our support to non-VAT-registered companies and businesses that started after March 2019.

The Llywydd took the Chair.

Ken Skates AC: Now, with regard to Mark Isherwood's question about support for the tourism sector, I can confirm that, through the first phase of the economic resilience fund, more than £11 million of support has been provided to tourism and hospitality businesses. It's saved more than 4,000 jobs, and that support would not have been available elsewhere in the UK. And we're also providing £5 million specifically to support start-up firms that have yet to be helped by the UK Government's self-employment support scheme. Now, our grant scheme, which was launched just last week, will support 2,000 start-ups with grants of £2,500 each, and, of course, this comes ahead of the UK Government formally responding to the UK Treasury Committee's recommendations for filling those gaps that EIS members have identified. And I think this is a really important point, because there are still many gaps that exist right across the UK and which require the attention of UK Government, including, for example, the need to lengthen the job retention scheme for specific sectors—for tourism, culture and aerospace—and those gaps were highlighted by many Members, including Helen Mary Jones and Mark Isherwood.
Now, the JRS, the job retention scheme, has been a lifeline for many businesses, but the UK Government must—absolutely must— avoid a cliff edge when it comes to ending the furlough and self-employment schemes. And I think that we would all accept that the full impact of coronavirus on the economy will not be revealed until the autumn, when these are scheduled to be wound down. Now, yesterday, we also heard, as Members have pointed out, the Prime Minister re-announce various infrastructure projects, and adopt the promise that we have been making for some months to build back better. Now, to us in Welsh Government, that means investing in green, fair growth. It means investing in businesses that commit to the economic contract that we now have with thousands upon thousands of enterprises in Wales. It means doing precisely as Alun Davies has articulated, in investing in places that need levering up, investing in people who have not enjoyed the fruits of growth during the period of de-industrialisation. It means creating, in my view, a gender-neutral political economy that is less white and less favourable to people and places that are already affluent and powerful. And building back better also means building a future together. And I've been incredibly grateful for the ideas and the advice from Members across the Chamber.
Now, as Rhianon Passmore said, the recovery cannot see a return of austerity measures. Conversely, the recovery should see multiple benefits stem from a green-led economic recovery, one that creates local jobs, contributes to decarbonisation, builds a foundational economy, provides skills, tackles fuel poverty, and provides better, greener homes. However, we must equally recognise that there is a crucial need for a people-based recovery in the face of significant expected unemployment, underemployment and economic inactivity in Wales and across the UK over the next 12 months. And, as I mentioned a few weeks ago, we're developing a comprehensive package of support that will allow people to upskill and find new employment, so we can protect a generation from the scarring effects of unemployment. And we're ready to use £40 million of economic resilience funding to do just this.
I think we'll also need to refashion and reprioritise the apprenticeship programme, further education and university offerings, and the committee notes the action taken to ensure the financial stability of the apprenticeship network, and I very much welcome this. It's enabled training providers to respond positively to the COVID crisis, introducing online learning and keeping-in-touch strategies. Enabling apprenticeship recruitment is integral to the recovery, like considering a comprehensive suite of support for people facing redundancy, those made unemployed, and employees needing to upskill. This includes offering access to working well services for individuals, to give them advice and guidance on a range of opportunities available to them, and to help them overcome whatever personal challenges and barriers they face in finding and securing work.
We'll increase access to personalised learning accounts and support through our ReAct and employability skills programmes, as well as our Jobs Growth Wales programme, which provides valuable work opportunities for young people who may not have relevant work experience. And, as a number of Members have identified this afternoon, young people have been identified as the most at risk of long-term unemployment as a result of coronavirus. So, our investment will naturally be prioritised for under-25s. We'll also prioritise support for those furthest from the labour market, including disabled people, those with low skills, and individuals from a BAME background. Now, to date, our community employability programmes have supported 48,000 people, 18,000 of whom have moved into employment, and, in response to coronavirus, delivery has been adapted to help 400 people find employment since April of this year.
Our regional skills partnerships continue to provide us with a strategic regional view of priorities for skills, based on labour market intelligence and informed by employer need. And we've commissioned these partnerships to produce bi-monthly reports to capture employer-led intelligence across the regions of Wales to provide insight into the impact of coronavirus across sectors and industry clusters.
And, just briefly, the ambition of Welsh Government remains to create a sustainable, integrated public transport network, including community transport, as Joyce Watson has identified, right across Wales. We've already spent £29 million on a hardship fund for the bus sector, helping operators to maintain core services. And the recent announcement by my colleague, the Deputy Minister, confirming initial funding of £15.4 million to local authorities to introduce measures to improve the safety and conditions for sustainable and active travel modes in response to the coronavirus crisis demonstrates our prompt intent.
Llywydd, as mentioned earlier, I look forward to formally responding in full next month, but, in the meantime, I would like to thank again all Members for their contributions.

Thank you. Russell George, the committee Chair, to reply to the debate. Russell George.

Russell George AC: Thank you, Llywydd, and can I thank all Members who took part in this debate today? It's particularly good that Members who are not part of our committee took part in this debate, and I just thought that showed how important it was that we had this debate perhaps earlier than we would perhaps have expected in the past.
I particularly thought Huw Irranca-Davies's comments were correct around devolution. Devolution presents us with the opportunity of reacting to Wales-specific needs—that's what devolution is intended to do. And, as Huw Irranca said that, I thought about how Wales is a small business economy, and how we need to support small businesses, in perhaps particularly a different way to perhaps how businesses may be supported in other parts of the UK.
Can I also thank others who took part in the debate as well, as I look through my notes? Mark Isherwood correctly pointed out the need for speed, in terms of support from Welsh Government and local authorities—something that, in evidence to our committee, was highlighted by a number of witnesses. And the holiday let sector as well was something that was raised quite extensively with our committee, which we've incorporated into our report. Mark Isherwood also pointed out that support for the bus industry is vital, and we are still waiting for confirmation from Welsh Government in terms of details for the level of support towards the bus industry. And, since this report was published, we have since taken this matter up with the Minister separately.
Helen Mary Jones, of course, points out about the long-term plan being important across the board, and points out correctly the issues about the potential youth unemployment issue that is, sadly, looming. Professor Keep gave us evidence, and gave us the stark warning of huge issues looming. And I think the issue in terms of youth unemployment is something that is going to be particularly important to our committee work going forward.
David Rowlands—thank you for your contribution. You correctly pointed out issues around the need for more clarity around the shared prosperity funds—that's quite right. And you also, David, acknowledged the good work of the Development Bank of Wales and Business Wales, and I think we've acknowledged that in our report. It is also right to say and put on record the thanks to all the staff working in both those organisations, who have no doubt been under considerable pressureover the recent time.
Alun Davies correctly pointing out, of course, that it's often the poorest people who are hit during this particular pandemic, and correctly talking about the size of the challenge. I think you referred to the biggest challenge perhaps even since devolution. But what did strike me was what you said, Alun, in terms of building back better: to do that, you do need to have something to build back upon.
And I thank Joyce Watson for her contribution. I think Helen Mary Jones also highlighted these issues in terms of being fair in terms of where support is targeted. We know that the construction industry and infrastructure projects are often focused towards men, and care work is towards women, and we've got to be fair about how Government support is levelled.
Looking through my notes, I think I should also say that I'm very grateful to the Minister for making sure that he has had his diary free to come to committee when we've asked him to. So, I thank the Minister for that. It was quite a comprehensive report. David Rowlands, I think, pointed out that we had 34 recommendations in total. But I should like to thank all the witnesses who gave evidence, both verbally and in writing, to us, and I should also like to point out thanks for the excellent support from the committee team and the research staff, as well as the support from the IT and broadcasting teams and their wider support also, who provided excellent support for us. So, can I thank all who contributed towards our debate this afternoon? Thank you very much. Diolch yn fawr.

The proposal is to note the committee's report. Does any Member object? I don't see or hear any objections, and therefore, the motion is agreed.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

11. Plaid Cymru Debate: Proposed New Curriculum

The following amendments have been selected: amendments 1, 3, 4 and 8 in the name of Darren Millar, amendment 2 in the name of Rebecca Evans, and amendments 5, 6 and 7 in the name of Neil McEvoy. If amendment 2 is agreed amendments 3 and 4 will be deselected.

The next item is the Plaid Cymru debate on the proposed new curriculum. I call on Siân Gwenllian to move the motion.

Motion NDM7342 Siân Gwenllian
To propose that the Senedd:
1. Declares its general support for the purpose of the proposed new curriculum, which is to enable learners to develop as:
a) ambitious, capable learners, ready to learn throughout their lives;
b)enterprising, creative contributors, ready to play a full part in life and work;
c)ethical, informed citizens of Wales and the world; and
d)healthy, confident individuals, ready to lead fulfilling lives as valued members of society.
2. Agrees that introducing the new curriculum offers a historic opportunity to right many structural injustices in Wales.
3.Welcomes the Welsh Government’s recognition that government has a responsibility to take specific steps to ensure that the curriculum guarantees a baseline of provision for young people across Wales as a matter of basic human rights and welcomes that some elements of the new curriculum will be mandatory as a result.
4.Agrees that the mandatory elements of the curriculum should include:
a) black and people of colour history; and
b) the history of Wales.
5. Agrees that the new curriculum should support all learners to be fluent in Welsh and English, but that English does not need to be included in the list of mandatory elements in order to achieve this aim.

Motion moved.

Siân Gwenllian AC: Thank you very much, Llywydd. The past few months have forced each and every one of us to look afresh at what is most important to us. It has also, unfortunately, highlighted the injustice and inequality that still pervade our society.
Before too long, we, as a legislature, will undertake the important work of scrutinising one of the most important pieces of legislation to come before this Senedd in its history—legislation that will give us an opportunity to wipe the slate clean for the first time and to create a curriculum that is tailor-made for Wales.
Generally speaking, the vision underpinning the introduction of the new curriculum is one that we in Plaid Cymru agree with. It provides opportunities to realise a number of ambitions and to deliver many laudable aims. As we approach the publication of the curriculum and assessment Bill next week, we felt that it was timely to take this opportunity today to have a focused debate on the opportunities provided by the legislation to right injustice andto create a Wales that is more inclusive for all.
This afternoon, I want to focus on the three things that the new curriculum needs to deliver. There are more than three things, of course, and during the Bill's journey through the Senedd, we will have an opportunity to discuss other important elements, such as mental and emotional health and well-being. But I want to focus today on three elements.
First of all, the new curriculum must ensure that the next generation of children and young people in Wales learn about the history of BAME people in order to prevent racism and to promote cultural diversity.Secondly, it must guarantee that every pupil learns about Welsh history, so that they have the opportunity to see the world through the prism of the country in which they study and grow. And thirdly, it must move us towards a situation where fluency in both our national languages becomes the norm rather than the exception, by ensuring that the curriculum facilitates and hastens the growth of Welsh-medium education.

Siân Gwenllian AC: The Government has already accepted that certain elements of the curriculum should be made statutory within legislation in order to guarantee that certain elements are given deserved attention and delivered to all pupils without exception. It stands to reason that it's the responsibility of national government to put robust provision in place in legislation to safeguard children. And the Minister is therefore to be congratulated on her decision to ensure that sex and healthy relationship education is treated as an issue of basic human rights in Wales in the future.
But where is the rationale for taking an entirely different course with the teaching of the history of our BAME communities? Where is the rationale in not applying the same considerations and the same criteria to these issues too? I heard the judge Ray Singh say recently that the voluntary approach to teaching these subjects hasn't worked and, as result, BAME history, according to his assessment, was all but absent from school lessons. Now, I do hasten to say that this is a systematic and systemic problem and it's not the fault of schools or individual teachers.
But many experts, including Race Council Cymru, have argued that BAME history must be made mandatory, as part of Welsh history, in our schools.And last week, we received the latest evidence in a long list of reports of this need. And in the review, commissioned by the First Minister, to understand the disproportionate impact of COVID-19 on BAME people in Wales, there were specific recommendations calling for action to be taken, without delay, to include the history of BAME communities and the Commonwealth in the curriculum for Wales 2022, for both secondary and primary school pupils, as a matter of urgency.
The message is clear: the Government must take the reins and must do everything within its power to eradicate racism from our society. Surely we're not going to delegate something that is so crucially important in our attempts to eradicate racism from our society to every school governing body or to a working group overseen by Estyn. Surely that is not the best approach. I, therefore, urge all those Members who agree with me to reject the Government amendment, tabled in the name of Rebecca Evans. And, by the way, we will reject all other amendments too, because, in our view, they detract from the main message of our motion.
I, like many others across this Chamber, have often highlighted the strong case for the inclusion of Welsh history as a statutory element of the curriculum in all its forms and in all its diversity, of course. Therefore, I won't rehearse all of those issues, but I will say that the current system has failed to provide an appropriate focus on Welsh history and has denied a generation of children the full understanding of their own nation's history. Every young person in Wales has a right to understand his or her surroundings through the lens of his or her own nation. And it's our duty, as the elected Members of the main democratic body in Wales, to guarantee that that is the case.
And to conclude, I want to turn to the third element that I mentioned. The intention to make English statutory in all stages of learning will mean that every pupil up to the age of seven will receive English language education automatically, unless school governors opt out on an individual basis. It will also place more responsibility on school governors over the individual school's language policy and will undermine the strategic role of local authorities in planning Welsh-medium education,including in the west of Wales, which has been in the vanguard in terms of immersion policy.
Legislating to make English compulsory would be contrary to the understanding that has developed and been nurtured in Wales over the past few years, that recognition that the playing field for Welsh and English is not a level one. Although both, of course, are national languages, the support and advocacy required differs. I welcome the acknowledgment of that in the Welsh Conservative amendment, but I do regret the fact that the Welsh Government seems to have missed the point entirely on this.
The new curriculum should assist the counties of Gwynedd, Anglesea, Ceredigion and Carmarthenshire, where the Welsh language is established as a norm in the foundation phase, and should support the rolling out of that best practice more widely across the country. But rather, it puts that at risk and, perhaps, there is a risk that that could be undermined, albeit not a deliberate act.
To summarise, therefore, Llywydd, we as a state should intervene where strengthening equality and the fundamental rights of our citizens is in the question. We should intervene where the status quo is failing, and we should intervene where the evidence is so strong that it would be negligent for us not to do so. We must act at a national level where that action is so crucial to the creation of change here in Wales. I look forward to hearing and listening to the debate and the contribution of my fellow parliamentarians on this important issue.

I have selected the eight amendments to the motion. If amendment 2 is agreed, amendments 3 and 4 will be de-selected. I call on Suzy Davies to move amendments 1, 3, 4 and 8, tabled in the name of Darren Millar. Suzy Davies.

Amendment 1—Darren Millar
Deletepoint 2 and replace with:
Agrees that the new curriculum, if it succeeds in its aims, can help develop a confident, mutually responsible citizenry who will be proactive in tackling injustice from all sources.

Amendment 3—Darren Millar
In point 4, delete sub-points 4(a) and 4(b) and replace with:
the histories of Wales; the histories of the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland; and histories of other parts of the world, and that:
(i) all the above to include black and people of colour history; and
(ii) all the above to be contextualised;
the teaching of life saving skills, as identified as a priority by the Youth Parliament.

Amendment 4—Darren Millar
Deletepoint 5 and replace with:
Agrees that the new curriculum should support all learners to be fluent in Welsh and English, ensuring that support for Welsh learning takes into account the already advantageous effect of learners’ greater environmental exposure to English.

Amendment 8—Darren Millar
Add as new point at end of motion:
Calls on Welsh Government to commit to reconsidering the commencement date for the implementation of the new curriculum to accommodate delays in preparation due to Covid-19.

Amendments 1, 3, 4 and 8 moved.

Suzy Davies AC: Diolch, Llywydd, and yes, I move the amendments. Can I thank Plaid for bringing this debate forward? It's a big subject and I appreciate that they want to just focus on a couple of aspects today. So, this will be something of a speedy run-through of some of the issues raised by the motion and the amendments. But I think we can pin down the basics in supporting points 1 and 3, and I hope that's taken on board.
Our first amendment is really just a request to Members to consider the limits of what 'structural injustices' might mean. Delyth Jewell referred to this in an article over the weekend, and we might find that we share her analysis—I don't know yet. But I would like us to, even now, start thinking about speaking beyond our relationship with the state, if you like: standing up to the bully; putting yourself in the shoes of others; and becoming more emotionally literate and empathetic. These matter in tiny ways—y pethau bychain—in daily, human interaction, part of the social glue that is slowly becoming unstuck in an increasingly digital set of relationships in our lives, and an environment where people are afraid of the consequences of expressing different opinions. These strikes me as new societal drivers, so I'm not sure if 'structural' captures all that, because, like you, I want to see generations of young people think about this and to consider and maybe accept responsibility to be proactive about fairness in different ways in daily life, and not just headline issues or through political power.
We tabled our amendment 4 as the original point 4 reads as if these two histories—the history of Wales and the history of black people and people of colour—might be mutually exclusive, and I know this wasn't the intention. Plaid knows that we agree with both these points. But this ask for contextualisation is quite a big deal. I mean, how ridiculous is it that I can be asked, in complete seriousness, by a young friend, seeing a double-decker bus in Swansea for the first time, 'Is that where the black people used to sit?' This is in Swansea. This curriculum is supposed to help raise our children as critical thinkers, problem solvers, and to understand that there is never one perspective on anything. As David Melding tweeted—channelling his 1066 and All That—
'Sir Thomas Picton was a bad man and a brilliant general.'
There is so much to unpick in that one sentence, but you need to examine context to even begin to do that, and that's why the histories of Wales cannot be taught in isolation from the histories of these islands particularly, but the world more widely, or without understanding that what we see or what we think we see in our stories is happening because of what went before or what is happening elsewhere.
Now, I've included the teaching of life-saving skills here as a mandatory part of the curriculum, partly because the idea had cross-party support in the last Assembly, including from the Minister when she was in opposition, and for my legislative proposals, which had cross-party support in this Senedd/Assembly, but mainly because life-saving skills topped our own Youth Parliament's poll of life skills, with managing stress coming in just behind. So, it's their priority life skill.
With amendment 5, we are treading cautiously here as we haven't seen the Bill yet and don't know what it will say on the point made by Plaid. But Siân is right—it is self-evident that our children will be exposed to more English influencers and that, if we are serious about bilingualism, how Welsh is taught must acknowledge and accommodate that, but our languages are equal under the law and the Bill is a piece of law.
We support amendment 5 and amendment 6, which chimes so well with our own long-standing trilingual Wales policy.
Amendment 7 is difficult to disagree with but difficult to deliver when teacher recruitment is a source of deep concern.
So, finally, to amendment 8, the Welsh Conservatives invited views of all schools in Wales about the effect of lockdown on preparations for the curriculum, and the headline findings are pretty stark: just under half of schools said they were doing no development work at all, with the remainder only doing some. Seventy six per cent of teachers told us that this period was having a negative effect on their preparation, with all planned work for the summer cancelled, and, when asked the open question, 'What support could Welsh Government offer at this time to support your curriculum development?', by far the majority response was, 'Delay its implementation'—not its introduction, but its implementation. Leaders' plans to give this curriculum a year's dry run are dashed and gone because of COVID, and teachers want the curriculum and they want to do it well. So, they want to do justice to your policy, basically, Minister, and so I hope that, in listening to this debate today, you'll hear the urge and give a signal today that you're listening. Diolch.

I call on the Minister for Education to move formally amendment 2, tabled in the name of Rebecca Evans.

Amendment 2—Rebecca Evans
Delete points 4 and 5 and replace with:
Recognises that the new Curriculum for Wales Humanities guidance 'promotes an understanding of the ethnic and cultural diversity within Wales' and 'enables learners to take committed social action as participative citizens of their local, national and global communities.'
Welcomes the Welsh Government’s commitment to:
a) work with Estyn to ensure that their review of Welsh history takes full account of Welsh, and wider, BAME history, identity and culture; and
b) establishing a working group to oversee the development of learning resources, and identify gaps in current resources or training related to BAME communities, their contributions and experiences.
Agrees that the new curriculum should support all learners to learn Welsh and English.

Amendment 2 moved.

Kirsty Williams AC: Formally move.

Diolch. I call on Neil McEvoy to move amendments 5, 6 and 7, tabled by him.

Amendment 5—Neil McEvoy
Add as new point at end of motion:
Calls on the Welsh Government to ensure that the curriculum makes provision for learning Welsh and that this is accompanied by investment to make Welsh language intensive immersion courses freely available for teachers and pupils alike.

Amendment 6—Neil McEvoy
Add as new point at end of motion:
Calls on the new curriculum to ensure that every pupil is taught a modern foreign language from year 1 of school.

Amendment 7—Neil McEvoy
Add as new point at end of motion:
Believes that implementing the new curriculum successfully can be best achieved by cutting class sizes to under 20 pupils.

Amendments 5, 6 and 7 moved.

Neil McEvoy AC: Diolch, Llywydd. A million speakers by 2050: so, how do we do it? The only way is radical and transformational investment in the Welsh language.

Neil McEvoy AC: Welsh is the fourth language that I've learned, and the only way to learn a language is through immersion.

Neil McEvoy AC: So, Welsh is the fourth language that I've learned, and the only way to do it is immersion, really. Immersion courses should be freely available to everyone: for pupils, for teachers, so teachers can be upskilled. Otherwise, I don't really see us achieving the target. We need to build up skill bases. If we look at, maybe, refugees, they come to Wales and they get given free English lessons. Well, they should be taught Welsh as well because we live in Wales.
The next amendment, amendment 6, talks about modern foreign languages and we really, really should be teaching languages from year 1 on. There is no excuse. Again, we need to upskill staff to be able to do that. In the Netherlands and all around the world—many places—it's very common for people to be multilingual through their education systems. I remember going to Spain and watching seven-year-olds do geography through the medium of English. It was really interesting.
On the issue of class sizes, the last speaker touched on this, but what I want to do and what the Welsh National Party wants to do is to put smaller class sizes back on the agenda. As a former teacher, I know the absolutely massive effect and huge difference, more culturally in the classroom, really, and especially with better relationships, when you teach classes under the size of 20, and I think that is something we should be aiming for.
I'm just clicking on the screen now to the motion itself, and I wish I'd amended this, really, because if you look at point 4, you've got
'a) black and people of colour history; and
b) the history of Wales'
and the plight—. Speakers have talked about the BAME community. Well, black, brown, people of colour are part of Welsh history. We are Welsh history. We help make it, and I think there are seriously unintended consequences, or there could be seriously unintended consequences, with the wording of the motion. Maybe I should have added 'as part of', but I didn't, but I wish I had done now. I remember being in a meeting once with Betty Campbell, and she was labelled 'a BME', and Betty said, 'I ain't no BME. I'm Welsh.' And I think we must never forget that. I think never, ever forget that. I identify as Welsh and happen to have brown skin, and what I want to see is a fully inclusive history of Wales, where we automatically learn about every community that makes up our country, and, when my son grows up, I want him learning about Llywelyn Ein Llyw Olaf, I want him learning about Sycharth and the court of Owain Glyndŵr,I want him learning about the castles, and Dolbadarn, for example, and about Tŷ Morgan, and not just the Battle of Hastings, the Magna Carta, and Henry VIII.
Let's touch back again on the race issue, because I think if we're going to seriously address the issue of race, then we need to address the matter institutionally. Look at the BBC, and ask anyone out there how many journalists of colour they see in Wales? How many journalists of colour do they take on their training programmes? How many women, for that matter? How many disabled people? Well, the BBC are so embarrassed, they won't even say, because I have asked, but they will not release the figures, probably because they're so embarrassing.
If we look at the Senedd itself, during lockdown, if you were an MS of colour, you were half as likely to be chosen to pose a question to the First Minister as a white Member. Now, these are institutional matters of discrimination that the institution must address, because they're not being addressed. I think what we need to talk about, really, as well, are the barriers still there, preventing people of colour from being part of Welsh history.
Just to recap, we're never going to have, by 2050, a country with a million Welsh speakers, where people can converse in English or Welsh, until we have those immersion courses. It's a really, really fundamental thing. If anyone votes against it, it's a shocking state of affairs, really, because I don't see how anybody can seriously vote against pre-immersion classes in the Welsh language for people who live in Wales. It's our right, and it should be there already.
We do need to upskill people. The economy would be much more nimble, much more able to be successful if we had better language skills. And, of course, the final point there on the class sizes: we need to start talking about reducing class sizes until we get under 20. So, those are my amendments, and diolch yn fawr.

Leanne Wood AC: There's no doubt that the teaching of all of our history is so much better today than it has been in the past, and there is some superb teaching practice that goes on throughout the country. The problem for us is that it isn't consistent. We can ensure that that best practice can benefit every child, wherever they live. With the development of the new curriculum, we've got the opportunity to join the front runners in progressive education and to teach all pupils a wider range of history, including Welsh history, which should be inclusive of black, Asian, minority ethnic history makers in and from Wales, because, put simply, that history is Welsh history. And I want to see history taught from a women's and a working class perspective, too. When it comes to history, we must include all of it—the good, the bad and the ugly. We need to talk about empire, we need to talk about Penrhyn castle's links to plantations in Jamaica, the copper works in the Greenfield valley in Holywell that produced manillas used to buy slaves, or Swansea's Grenfell family, who were deeply involved in the slave trade in El Cobre, Cuba. We need to talk about the positive contribution of our BAME communities. Whitewashing Wales's industrial legacy by omitting the role of Tiger bay's uniquely diverse community perpetuates ignorance. The seamen and workers from over 50 countries who settled in the community as a result of the bustling docks are central to the development of the industrial south of Wales. But as much as this is a matter of representation, it's also a matter of protecting minority groups in Wales. In the same vein as the Minister's decision to make sex and relationships education statutory, this, too, is about protecting people and understanding minorities. It will provide opportunities to challenge racism and xenophobia, and, as recent work from Show Racism the Red Card shows, that is essential.
As racism and religious discrimination grows in schools, we can also see the effects in our criminal justice system. Wouldn't greater understanding make a difference to notorious cases like that of the Cardiff three: three black men wrongfully convicted of murder in 1987, right on the Senedd's doorstep? It's known as one of the worst miscarriages of justice in the history of the British criminal justice system, yet the disproportionate representation of black people in our prison population, the underrepresentation of BAME people in positions of authority, and the poor treatment of BAME people at the hands of the police in too many cases are not confined to history. The statistics show how much of a problem this still is today. Embedding anti-racism in the curriculum could be one small but significant step to be taken to abolish systemic and structural discrimination in Wales. It's the duty of our legislature and our Government to ensure that it's enshrined in law.
We cannot overlook the uncomfortable elements of our history and, indeed, our present simply because they might make us feel awkward. Being honest, open and prepared to listen, challenge and take action to change the position of people who face discrimination will make us, as a nation, more aware of elements of prejudice and inequality in our society and communities that need to be rectified. Plaid Cymru believes that this new curriculum offers us a chance to correct many structural injustices in Wales, and I hope that opportunity won't be missed.

Rhianon Passmore AC: I support amendment 2, as tabled by Rebecca Evans, and particularly as the Member of the Senedd for Islwyn, I support her wish to insert,
'agrees that the new curriculum should support all learners to learn Welsh and English.'
Wales is a proud and historical multilingual nation of many languages from across the Commonwealth and beyond. In law, we are a bilingual nation, with Welsh and English enjoying equal status, but many of our schoolchildren speak many more languages, and in my teacher training and wider teaching I was highly privileged to have experienced schools with over 34 languages spoken and the rich tapestry of cultural benefit that this has interwoven within the schools. For the communities of Islwyn, it is our inclusive approach that benefits all our communities and makes us the Welsh nation that we are. The majority of my Islwyn constituents are proud Welsh citizens who speak English fluently, with a growing, vibrant Welsh-medium base supported by our Welsh Labour Government. It is this tapestry of choices that we value to maintain the equality we cherish in education.
So, therefore, it is really disappointing to me to see Plaid Cymru seemingly sow division with the provocative assertion that English does not need to be included in the list of mandatory elements in order to achieve the aim that all learners be fluent in English and Welsh. Rather, this feels rather more myopic and divisive an attitude I also wholeheartedly agree with amendment 2 where it states:
'Welcomes the Welsh Government's commitment to:
'a) work with Estyn to ensure that their review of Welsh history takes full account of...BAME history, identity and culture; and
'b) establishing a working group to oversee the development of learning resources, and identify gaps in current resources or training related to BAME communities, their contributions and experiences.'
The Black Lives Matter campaign has been both a tragic and sadly still-needed development, still raising consciousness throughout our world and horrifically underscored, unbelievably just last week, by the abhorrent, shocking death of two black sisters, allegedly not prioritised and selfie-snapped dead with metropolitan police officers.
In Wales, we ourselves know that, despite our strong ethos and equality-based policy division, there is still much to do across society. We will not stop, like Show Racism the Red Card and others, making strides to eliminate racism and prejudice, because it is part of our DNA. Indeed, in Wales's own capital city hall, there has been a well-publicised public debate about the appropriateness of one of the statues in its marble hall—a hall decorated with statues of Welsh heroes voted for by the Welsh public in the twentieth century. The statue of Sir Thomas Picton of Haverfordwest, who died at Waterloo, is now denounced for cruelty: a slave owner and colonial governor of Trinidad. Just that one statue, sat in a marble hall of Welsh male heroes, embodies and truly personifies the shifting sands of time—nuanced, often difficult aspects of our collective history to face, of racial abuse and prejudice that we, as a Welsh nation together, have a duty to educate our future generations about.
I have full confidence that the proposed new curriculum for Wales, post-COVID, developed by the Welsh Government, will be a rich, vibrant, valuable tapestry, confidently woven, to ensure that we develop our most precious resource—self-confident, skilled, thoughtful and emotionally intelligent citizens for Wales and for our world. Diolch.

David J Rowlands AC: Since devolution, statistics have shown that the Welsh education system, once the envy of many, has become—and I make no excuse in using this hackneyed phrase—a race to the bottom. We can therefore well understand the current education Minister's desire to drastically improve the standard of education now being achieved in Welsh schools, and it is true to say that the tenacity and sheer commitment that she brings to her role cannot be denied. But, one has to ask: is the new curriculum—indeed, is it another new curriculum or should we call it a modus operandi—the answer? This is especially true if it is in any way based on Donaldson principles.
I feel that we are justified in asking this question, given that these same principles were applied to Scottish education and have all but ruined its once vaunted reputation as an educational model. Educational standards in Scotland are widely regarded to have plummeted over the last decade or so. One of Scotland's foremost educational experts, Professor Lindsay Paterson from the University of Edinburgh, is fairly scathing of the so-called curriculum for excellence introduced in Scotland in 2010. He says that it has been a disaster for educational attainment because it lacked academic rigour and was a general dumbing down of the curriculum. Most worrying of all, he also points out that it has led to a widening of educational inequality.
In Wales, the ending of SATs and the school league tables was, I believe, a move in the dumbing down of education. How can we be sure that our pupils are being taught well and achieving the levels expected if we do not have regular testing? There was a time when there were full tests in every subject at the end of every school term. Yes, they were internally set and marked, but they were a very effective way of measuring a child's achievements.
Since devolution, we have seen Minister after Minister, and with each change a new set of policies introduced. What has been the result of these changes? More schools in special measures than ever before and, except for a few exceptions, lower academic achievements year on year. Indeed, in Torfaen, we have even had the educational department itself in special measures. I believe that everyone in this Chamber would agree that things have to change. But, given that it may take over a decade for the true results of this new curriculum to take effect, it is a very real gamble that we are taking with our future generations. Let us hope that it will not be a repeat of that disastrous policy introduced by an ill-informed former Prime Minister, who insisted that, what the country needed was 50 per cent of its population to be university educated; a policy that led to two decades of the virtual abandonment of vocational education, where former technical colleges, which had, for the most part, provided an excellent training facility for vocational skills, were converted to universities for anything but vocational education.
Minister, I sincerely hope that the measures you are putting in place will be the salvation of the education system in Wales, because we cannot afford to let down our future generations for another two decades. The future of the Welsh economy will depend on the skills that young people will acquire. I believe that the Welsh Government has made a very real commitment to improve the quality of both further and higher education, particularly addressing vocational apprenticeships. I hope that the foundation of these education establishments, the schools' educational programme, will adequately equip our youngsters for both of these institutions.

Delyth Jewell AC: 'Education is...the soul of a society as it passes from one generation to another.'
Those are the words of G.K. Chesterton, and it's true: the lessons we teach our children and young people should reflect our society's values, and they should be rooted in the stories of our past—the good and the bad.
Whilst there is a lot that Plaid Cymru welcomes in the new curriculum, we feel fervently that the way history is taught should include a mandatory element to consider key moments in our nation's history. If every child in Wales does not learn about these moments, we could impoverish generations of young people and rob them of a sense of their own identity. That is as true for moments like the drowning of Capel Celyn and the Merthyr Rising as it is for the history of Tiger Bay and the 1919 race riots.
The current plans are predicated on teaching children about their local history. I welcome that. But we also need to remember that there is no such thing as merely local history; history that is devoid of any link with the wider national or international context. As well as learning about our native history, the new curriculum should cover the role that Wales has played in the history of the world. The coal that spilt so many miners' blood in Senghenydd and Abertillery was used to power the engines of empire, and the evil of slavery soaked into the sinews of Welsh society too. We know, for example, that the Pennant family, owners of the Penrhyn estate, were also owners of one of the biggest estates in Jamaica, and some of the profit derived directly from slavery is invested in Welsh infrastructure.
More recent shadows also trouble our door. This week, the 'Cofiwch Dryweryn' mural near Aberystwyth was vandalised with a swastika and a symbol for white power. It was quickly daubed over, a swift message given that there is no welcome for racism or hatred in our communities, but we also can't ignore that those hateful symbols were drawn there in the first place. We need to teach children about the uglier sides of history to ensure that things like that don't happen.
But, there are also so many stories of courage and resilient diversity centering on the BAME communities of Wales. These aren't only stories of oppression. Our children should learn about people from the myriad communities that make up Wales who have played key roles in the episodes of our shared history. Because who we are is shaped by who we were and molded by the lessons we've learned and some of the lessons we have yet to learn.

Delyth Jewell AC: There is so much for the children of Wales to take pride in, so much to weep for, so much to regret. But, these are all their stories, and in order to learn from our own histories as a nation, then the children of Wales have to understand those histories. After all, the word 'Cymru' means a mixture, people coming together. Diverse stories of multiple colours—that's what we all are. And if we, as legislators, want to learn another lesson from our nation's history, it's the importance and fragility of the fate of our language—that's what that lesson should be.
I started this brief speech with the words of G.K. Chesterton, who said that the soul of a nation is its education. Well, if education is our soul, our heart is our language. As the old saying goes, 'Cenedl heb iaith, cenedl heb galon'—a nation without language is a nation without heart. That is our heritage. If we want to see growth in the Welsh language rather than seeing a slip back, we need to safeguard the status of the language in our curriculum. Placing English-medium education as the predestined option for children up to the age of seven is a damaging step that is contrary to the Government's policy of promoting the language. If individual governing bodies will have the ability to take decisions on the curriculum, this could lead to some pupils being deprived of the opportunity to learn the language.
National education requires national leadership. If the Welsh language is lost, then each and every one of us will lose out, not only those who speak Welsh, and it will not return. So, I urge the Government: be watchful; support our motion; support the children of Wales; and support our language.

Neil Hamilton AC: I must say I was rather disturbed by the language of Siân Gwenllian in introducing this debate, because she seemed to me to see the teaching of history not as something that is nuanced, complex, requires interpretation and isn't black and white, but merely as an opportunity to propagandise for her particular world view on an issue of modern-day complexity that requires very subtle and sensitive handling. And I'm sorry to say that the attitude that she seemed to evince in her speech is actually being followed, at the moment, in our schools in Wales.
I was recently sent, by a concerned parent from south Wales, some homework that was set for a seven-year-old child, about which this parent was very concerned. Because it had risen as a result of the George Floyd case and was based upon stuff that was published by Black Lives Matter. It included a photograph of a small child holding a Black Lives Matter poster, and various questions were asked that were to be answered. And then, the comment from the teacher at the end of it went like this, and I'm quoting here, because the child was asked to make a video:
'So, please put all your energy into this and make your speech count. This is such an important topic, it doesn't just happen far away in America, but it's true for our own friends.'
Well, now, this isn't education, this is activism, because if you look at the George Floyd case, and if there is evidence here of racism in the police forces in America, you will find that the picture is much more complex than the headlines would have us believe. The FBI statistics for 2016 show that 2,870 black people were murdered in that year, but 2,570 of the people who murdered them were also black. Three thousand, four hundred and ninety-nine white people were murdered, but 2,854 of those murderers were white. So, the overwhelming majority of murders actually take place by people of the same ethnicity in the United States. And if you take the figures between 2015 and 2019, black people accounted for 26.4 per cent of all those killed by the US police. Well, almost double that figure—50.3 per cent—were white. But, equally, whilst black Americans account for just 12 per cent of the population, they're responsible for 52.5 per cent of all murders, with the vast majority of their victims being black. So, if we're going to try to make out of the George Floyd case—[Inaudible.]—for racism in the whole of western society, I think that we're doing a substantial disservice.
Of course, if we relate this back to what has happened in history before, the same kind of slanting and distortion might take place. History has to be seen, if it's to be taught correctly, in the context of its time, and, as David Melding pointed out, Sir Thomas Picton, of course, he was a creature of his time. Slavery: nobody supports slavery today, and Britain was absolutely instrumental in the eradication of slavery in the western world.
Sir Thomas More, a great historical figure, canonised in my lifetime, believed in the burning of heretics. You know, should we remove all images of Sir Thomas More because he believed in barbaric execution? There's a movement to remove the statue of Constantine the Great from in front of York Minster cathedral. Constantine the Great was the man who made the Roman empire Christian, but, of course, the Roman empire was based on slaves, and Constantine the Great owned many slaves himself.
We have to have a sense of perspective. That's what history, surely, is all about. History should not be taught as a means of propaganda in schools. The teaching of history in schools should be inclusive, of course, and black and ethnic minorities do play a part, as Neil McEvoy has very convincingly pointed out in his speech, in our history, and that should be appropriately dealt with. But the whole history of the UK, of Wales and the wider world should be taught, including individuals who made history, whatever their ethnic background and whatever we may think, reading backwards retrospectively, of their behaviour with a twenty-first century view of it.
Slavery itself is a complicated subject to teach, because, yes, we know all about the American civil war and about the horrors of slavery in the south, but it's not just a case of whites enslaving blacks. There were 171 black slave owners in South Carolina in the census of 1860, and the largest of them was William Ellison Jr, who was himself a former slave, who had become a successful businessman, and he himself owned 63 black slaves. So, yes, history is complicated, and young people should be taught this, and what they should be taught most of all is to question what they're being told and how to differentiate between propaganda and fact. What is fact is itself a very difficult thing to determine in history—

You are out of time, Neil Hamilton. Can you bring your comments to a conclusion?

Neil Hamilton AC: Yes, I will finish on that point. Thank you.

Jenny Rathbone AC: I'll be supporting amendment 2, because I think it more eloquently captures the task ahead of us: to make our education system more relevant to today's young people and the challenges they will have to grapple with in the troubled worlds they will inherit from us. I'm grateful to Show Racism the Red Card, not only for the work they've been doing with schools over the last decade, but also for their most recent survey on racism in Wales. It's a useful reminder of the extent of the challenges ahead for us. These will not be resolved by simplistic slogans or reassuring words, which will not resolve the centuries of racism embedded in our history.
From this racism in Wales survey, we know at least two thirds of respondents have witnessed or suffered from some form of racism. So, getting to grips with our colonial past, the atrocities committed in our name, will be a painful journey for all of us.
Today is the anniversary of the death of Christopher Kapessa, a 13-year-old boy drowned in the River Cynon. The Crown Prosecution Service says there's no public interest to bring a manslaughter charge against whichever pupil pushed him into the river, but I think that everything we've heard about George Floyd and many other miscarriages of justice reinforce the importance of ensuring that we are dealing with all crimes equitably and that we have to address the unconscious discrimination that infects most of us.
I think the complexities of this challenge were very carefully addressed in a recent Channel 4 series called The School That Tried to End Racism, and it really illustrated how difficult it was for both the white and the non-white 11 and 12-year-olds, but particularly the white pupils. It isn't just about skin colour. Discrimination on the basis of nationality and religion also feature in the Show Racism the Red Card survey as significant causes of racism, particularly in our secondary schools. So, for that reason alone, it is very important that all pupils are involved in the religion, values and ethics curriculum, because we need all pupils to embrace those values and ethics and an understanding of each other's religions, or none.
At the cross-party group on faith I attended yesterday, some representatives of faith schools were anxious about what the new curriculum means for their mission. I would say to them that religion is a journey not an event, and reflects the values and customs of our societies. When Pope Francis visited Paraguay in 2015, he balanced the apology he made for the crimes of the Catholic church committed against the indigenous people during the colonial conquest of the Americas with high praise for the Jesuit missions that flourished during the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries there. I have had the privilege to visit what remains of those wonderful missions of Paraguay, and I'd like all Welsh people to learn about that almost utopian society where art, music and economic prosperity flourished, inspired by the values and ethics of the Jesuits.
We need a new curriculum that properly prepares pupils for the complex and rich tapestry of our heritage, and the part that Wales must play in steering our world away from war and self-destruction. We need an education system that equips them to play their part in our global village, where we live and die from the same pandemic and the same climate emergency. Not to change would mean we would not be complying with article 29 of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child to prepare the child for responsible life in a free society in a spirit of understanding, peace, tolerance, equality of the sexes and friendships amongst all people's ethnic, national and religious groups.

The Minister for Education, Kirsty Williams.

Kirsty Williams AC: Thank you very much, Presiding Officer. I'd like to begin by thanking Siân Gwenllian and Plaid Cymru for the opportunity to discuss the proposed new curriculum. As Members will know, the curriculum and assessment Bill, subject to the determination by the Llywydd, is scheduled to be introduced ahead of the summer recess. Plaid Cymru are correct to recognise the new curriculum as a historic opportunity, and it's historic because it will provide us with the chance to establish an approach to a curriculum that has, for the very first time, been created by teachers, practitioners, education experts and academics in Wales for the learners of Wales. The principles and the tenets of the new curriculum are recognised internationally, and the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development is very supportive of our approach, describing Wales as, and I quote,
'on the path to transform the way children learn'.
The Bill seeks to establish the curriculum for Wales framework, the legislative underpinnings to provide a level of consistency and equity for learners whilst giving schools and settings flexibility to deliver engaged and specific learning opportunities. It emphasises that, within a national framework, schools and practitioners are best placed to make decisions about the needs of and the opportunities for their specific learners, including choosing topics and activities that will best support their learning. Listing content at a national level in no way guarantees meaningful learning, only that certain topics are covered to a varying extent. Instead, the curriculum for Wales guidance articulates what concepts and essence of learning should underpin a range of different topics and activities.
Education needs to be about so much more than a list. It requires the innovation and the creativity of practitioners to bring learning alive for children, and through this Bill Wales will put the needs of its learners first, and central, and motivate and engage practitioners and teachers to support them.
The curriculum for Wales guidance, which I published in January, sets out the essence of learning. Neither the Bill nor its associated documents will prescribe a full list of specific topics or activities. However, we will need to continue to work with partners to help provide learning resources to support schools in this challenging but critical endeavour.
Turning first to an area where I feel strongly that we need to improve as well as develop our understanding, and to improve the way we support learning, the recent events in America, indeed, across the world, have reminded us all of the importance of all aspects of our history. The First Minister announced last week that we will indeed work with Estyn to ensure that their review of Welsh history takes full account of black, Asian, minority ethnic history, identity and culture.

Kirsty Williams AC: We have announced that we are also establishing a working group to oversee the development of learning resources and to identify gaps in current resources and training. I believe that it's important, in that work, that that looks a lot wider than simply the subject of history. Instead, I want that to be a truly cross-curricular endeavour, including positive role models and learning through our wider cultural environment, including BAME contributions in Wales to literature, media, sport, the economy. It has to be about so much more than just the subject of history. But, of course, it will build on Black History Month and the ongoing discussions and consultation with stakeholders and the race council for Wales, on areas where their knowledge and expertise will help shape direction and provide solutions to particular issues.
Now, within the curriculum for Wales, we will legislate for its purposes, and one of the four purposes is that learners should develop as ethical, informed citizens of Wales and the world who are knowledgeable about their culture, their community and society and the world, now and in the past, and to respect the needs and rights of others as members of a diverse society.
The under-representation of BAME communities in the education workforce is also an issue that I want to actively seek to redress. We have set up a project to specifically look at the issues around recruitment into initial teacher education programmes and into the workforce more generally. We have commissioned the Education Workforce Council to undertake a review of the data that is available to support the development of our new policies in this area, and we're also engaging with the relevant stakeholders, such as the race and faith forum and the Ethnic Minorities and Youth Support Team Wales. Our engagement with other stakeholders will increase as the project progresses, and we will use the data and intelligence provided by stakeholders to develop policies to strategically address what is a chronic shortage of BAME representatives in the education workforce. I want our children to see their communities reflected in those thatstand at the front of their classes.
As mentioned, guidance for the new curriculum highlights the importance of drawing on local and national contexts across learning. In particular, it provides that practitioners should support learners to develop an authentic sense of cynefin, building knowledge of different cultures and histories, allowing them to develop a strong sense of individual identity and understanding how that is connected and shaped by wider world influences. Guidance for the humanities area of learning and experience refers to the need for consistent exposure to the stories of learners' locality and the story of Wales, as well as to the story of the wider world, to enable learners to develop an understanding of the complex, pluralistic and diverse nature of our nation and of other societies.
The humanities area of learning and experience will also provide opportunities for learners to learn about their heritage and sense of place through a study of Wales and their cynefin. Crucially, as has been mentioned a number of times this afternoon, it will allow learners to develop an inquiring and questioning mind, and will explore and investigate the world—past, present and future—for themselves. Contemplating different perspectives, including BAME in the context of Welsh cultures, will help promote an understanding of the ethnic and cultural diversity within Wales. And taken together, these experiences will help learners appreciate the extent to which they are part of a wider international community, fostering a sense of belonging that can encourage them to contribute positively to their communities, including recording videos about why black lives matter. I'm confident that this will build better learning and knowledge than prescribing this simply as a topic that has to be covered within the curriculum within a single subject.
I will now turn to the other issue raised by Plaid, and I want to begin by reaffirming my support for Welsh-medium education and also recognise the important work done in our schools and settings that provide Welsh immersion. My aspirations for the Welsh language are unchanged and, as I stated in launching the White Paper consultation, this Bill will enable Welsh immersion to continue, giving it a secure legal footing and strengthening its position as a key component of us reaching our aspirations, as a tried and tested pedagogical approach—an approach that my own children have benefited from.
I have spoken to Siân individually on this issue of immersion previously, and I recognise that she has concerns about this particular aspect of the Bill. I think, indeed, and I hope, that Siân would accept that we're all coming to this from the same place, which is to support Welsh immersion education. And I can assure everyone—fellow Members of the Senedd and, indeed, stakeholders—that I will look to continue to discuss and to engage on these issues during the passage of the Bill through the Senedd, so that we can ensure that we can all have confidence that the aspiration of a bilingual nation is delivered.
So, in conclusion, Llywydd, I'd like to once again thank colleagues for their contribution to this debate, and I look forward, with your permission, to formally introducing the Bill shortly.

I've been notified of one request for an intervention. Darren Millar. Darren, you need to unmute yourself.

Darren Millar AC: Apologies. Thank you, Llywydd. I just wanted to reflect on some of the comments that have been made by Members, if I may. I'm delighted to see that there's consensus that we need to change things in terms of the curriculum and the content of our history lessons here in Wales and, of course, of the need to improve access to resources to enable us to deliver on this ambition to develop 1 million Welsh speakers by 2050. I think these are wonderful aims, and our education system must be geared up to delivering them.
A reference was made by Jenny Rathbone earlier to a recent meeting of the cross-party group on faith, and that cross-party group discussed at some length changes to the religious education curriculum, which, of course, is going to be renamed and rebranded 'religion, ethics and values'. And whilst there's a great deal of optimism that that presents a great opportunity going forward, there are some concerns about the ability of the sector, if you like—the faith sector—to be able to respond to the ongoing consultation that's taking place at the moment. Because of the fact that everyone's been in lockdown, lots of organisations and groups haven't been able to meet, including local standing advisory councils on religious education.
So, I would hope that the Minister is able to reflect on that and perhaps provide a short extension to enable people to fully consider the Welsh Government's proposals and respond more fully to them in order that you can pick up on any of the issues that are raised, because I do think that there is concern that, if things continue at pace, then there may be problems when it comes to actually implementing significant change going forward.

Siân Gwenllian to reply to the debate.

Siân Gwenllian AC: Thank you very much, and I thank everyone for their contributions this afternoon. I do think that it's very timely for us to have this debate before the Bill begins its journey through the Senedd. And, certainly, we will have other issues that we will also wish to scrutinise as the curriculum progresses, including the issues that Darren Millar raised on education related to various religions, and the issues that Suzy mentioned in terms of life skills and, certainly, issues around well-being and the mental and emotional health of our children and young people—they are all very important areas that we will be scrutinising as we make progress.
But this afternoon, of course, we were focused on some specific aspects. One must make the point that of course the history of black people and people of colour is part of Welsh history. I sit here in Felinheli. Down the road, there is Penrhyn castle, and Leanne Wood and Delyth Jewell mentioned this—Penrhyn castle was built by the Pennant family, who made their money, of course, from the sugar industry, which relied on slavery. Now, I wasn't aware of that history when I was growing up in Felinheli in the 1950s and 1960s. Nobody discussed those issues, nobody discussed the background to them, and that deprived us all, didn't it, as children,of an understanding of the history around us, but also an understanding of history about other parts of the world where there had been oppression. It’s only very recently that this area has started to discuss all of those issues.
Let us not allow that kind of situation to be repeated. I knew more about the wives of Henry VIII than I knew about the history of what had happened with the history of the Pennant family. And of course there is good practice. There are excellent examples of teachers who have been introducing the kind of history that I would have aspired to have had, and things have improved since my time as a pupil. But there is no consistency very often and we shouldn't have to rely on pockets of good practice.
Our authors and our artists have also been enlightening us as to what has happened in our history, whilst we perhaps weren't aware of those events. I would refer you all to the work of Manon Steffan Ros, who wrote about the Pennant family and Penrhyn castle, and the deep understanding that she has created, but that was only in 2018. But that, of course, is an important part of our wider understanding as we move forward.
So, just very briefly on the Welsh language and immersion education, I do accept that the Minister agrees entirely on the importance of immersion education in terms of the learning of languages, and perhaps we are looking here at entirely unintended consequences with the legislation. I'm very grateful for your offer that we may discuss this further and seek a wording that will, hopefully, deliver what we both want to see delivered, namely seeing our citizens growing up as bilingual citizens and reaching that target of a million Welsh speakers. So, thank you very much for that.
So, the Bill begins its journey soon. Let us all contribute to this important work of scrutinising the Bill. Let us all seek to ensure that this legislation will create those structural changes that we need to see. I do believe that certain issues need to be compulsory and included on the face of the Bill in order to create the structural changes, in order to eradicate racism from our society. And I do believe that it's too open-ended as it stands, but we will have that debate as we make progress with the Bill. There are certain things that the Minister's already identified as being important enough to be placed on the face of the Bill, related to sex and healthy relationships education, and I agree with her entirely on that. My argument is that there are other issues of huge importance that should also be placed in statute too, in order to have consistency across Wales.

The proposal is to agree the motion without amendment. Does any Member object? [Objection.] There are objections, and I will therefore defer voting until voting time.

Voting deferred until voting time.

12. Voting Time

And that bring us to voting time.

And, as indicated on the agenda, today's votes will be conducted in accordance with Standing Order 34.11. Each political group may nominate one member of the group to carry the same number of votes as there are members of the group, and, in the case of a political group with an Executive role, the nominee will carry the same number of votes as there are members of that group, plus any other members of the Government. Members who do not belong to a group or grouping will vote for themselves. I'll conduct the votes by roll call.

And, therefore, the first vote is on the Plaid Cymru debate on the proposed new curriculum, and I call for a vote first of all on the unamended motion, tabled in the name of Siân Gwenllian. On behalf of the Labour group and the Government, Carwyn Jones, how do you cast your 30 votes?

Carwyn Jones AC: Against, Llywydd.

On behalf of the Welsh Conservatives, Darren Millar, how do you cast your 10 votes?

Darren Millar AC: Against.

On behalf of Plaid Cymru, Siân Gwenllian, how do you cast your nine votes?

Siân Gwenllian AC: In favour.

And on behalf of the Brexit Party, Mark Reckless, how do you cast your four votes?

Mark Reckless AC: Against.

Gareth Bennett.

Gareth Bennett AC: Against.

Neil Hamilton.

Neil Hamilton AC: Against, Llywydd.

Neil McEvoy.

Neil McEvoy AC: Abstain.

The result of the vote, therefore, is that there are nine in favour of the motion, one abstention, 46 against, and therefore the motion is not agreed.

Vote on NDM7342 held in accordance with Standing Order 34.11.

Carwyn Jones on behalf of the Labour Group and the Government: Against (30)
Darren Millar on behalf of the Conservative Group: Against (10)
Siân Gwenllian on behalf of the Plaid Cymru Group: For (9)
Mark Reckless on behalf of the Brexit Party Group: Against (4)
Gareth Bennett – Independent: Against
Neil Hamilton – United Kingdom Independence Party: Against
Neil McEvoy – Independent: Abstain

Motion not agreed.

The next vote is on amendment 1, tabled in the name of Darren Millar. On behalf of the Labour group and the Government, Carwyn Jones, how do you cast your 30 votes?

Carwyn Jones AC: Against.

The Welsh Conservatives—Darren Millar, how do you cast your 10 votes?

Darren Millar AC: In favour.

Siân Gwenllian, how do you cast your nine votes?

Siân Gwenllian AC: Against.

Brexit Party—Mark Reckless, how do you cast your four votes?

Mark Reckless AC: Abstain.

Gareth Bennett.

Gareth Bennett AC: Against.

Neil Hamilton.

Neil Hamilton AC: Against.

Neil McEvoy.

Neil McEvoy AC: Against.

The result of the vote, therefore, is that there were 10 in favour, four abstentions and 42 against, and therefore the amendment is not agreed.

Vote on amendment 1 to NDM7342 held in accordance with Standing Order 34.11.

Carwyn Jones on behalf of the Labour Group and the Government: Against (30)
Darren Millar on behalf of the Conservative Group: For (10)
Siân Gwenllian on behalf of the Plaid Cymru Group: Against (9)
Mark Reckless on behalf of the Brexit Party Group: Abstain (4)
Gareth Bennett – Independent: Against
Neil Hamilton – United Kingdom Independence Party: Against
Neil McEvoy – Independent: Against

Amendment not agreed.

The next vote is on amendment 2. Amendment 2 is tabled in the name of Rebecca Evans, and, if amendment 2 is agreed, amendments 3 and 4 will be deselected. Therefore, amendment 2 in the name of Rebecca Evans. On behalf of the Labour group and Government, Carwyn Jones, how do you cast your 30 votes?

Carwyn Jones AC: In favour.

The Welsh Conservatives—Darren Millar, how do you cast your 10 votes?

Darren Millar AC: Against.

Siân Gwenllian, how do you cast your nine votes?

Siân Gwenllian AC: Against.

Brexit Party—Mark Reckless, how do you cast your four votes?

Mark Reckless AC: Abstain.

Gareth Bennett.

Gareth Bennett AC: Against.

Neil Hamilton.

Neil Hamilton AC: Against.

Neil McEvoy.

Neil McEvoy AC: Against.

The result of that vote is that there were 30 in favour, four abstentions, and 22 against, and therefore amendment is agreed, and amendments 3 and 4 are deselected.

Vote on amendment 2 to NDM7342 held in accordance with Standing Order 34.11.

Carwyn Jones on behalf of the Labour Group and the Government: For (30)
Darren Millar on behalf of the Conservative Group: Against (10)
Siân Gwenllian on behalf of the Plaid Cymru Group: Against (9)
Mark Reckless on behalf of the Brexit Party Group: Abstain (4)
Gareth Bennett – Independent: Against
Neil Hamilton – United Kingdom Independence Party: Against
Neil McEvoy – Independent: Against

Amendment agreed.

Amendments 3 and 4 deselected.

That brings us to amendment 5. Amendment 5 is tabled in the name of Neil McEvoy. And on behalf of the Labour group and the Government, Carwyn Jones, how do you cast your 30 votes?

Carwyn Jones AC: Against.

The Welsh Conservatives—Darren Millar, how do you cast your 10 votes?

Darren Millar AC: In favour.

Siân Gwenllian, on behalf of Plaid Cymru, how do you cast your nine votes?

Siân Gwenllian AC: Against.

Brexit Party—how do you cast your four votes? Mark Reckless.

Mark Reckless AC: In favour.

Gareth Bennett.

Gareth Bennett AC: Against.

Neil Hamilton.

Neil Hamilton AC: Against.

Neil McEvoy.

Neil McEvoy AC: In favour.

The result of the vote is as follows: there were 15 in favour, no abstentions, and 41 against, and therefore amendment 5 is not agreed.

Vote on amendment 5 to NDM7342 held in accordance with Standing Order 34.11.

Carwyn Jones on behalf of the Labour Group and the Government: Against (30)
Darren Millar on behalf of the Conservative Group: For (10)
Siân Gwenllian on behalf of the Plaid Cymru Group: Against (9)
Mark Reckless on behalf of the Brexit Party Group: For (4)
Gareth Bennett – Independent: Against
Neil Hamilton – United Kingdom Independence Party: Against
Neil McEvoy – Independent: For

Amendment not agreed.

The next vote is on amendment 6, tabled in the name of Neil McEvoy. On behalf of the Labour group and Government, Carwyn Jones, how do you cast your 30 votes?

Carwyn Jones AC: Against.

The Welsh Conservatives—Darren Millar, how do you cast your 10 votes?

Darren Millar AC: In favour.

Siân Gwenllian, how do you cast the nine votes of Plaid Cymru?

Siân Gwenllian AC: Against.

Mark Reckless, how do you cast the four votes of the Brexit Party?

Mark Reckless AC: In favour.

Gareth Bennett.

Gareth Bennett AC: Against.

Neil Hamilton.

Neil Hamilton AC: In favour.

Neil McEvoy.

Neil McEvoy AC: In favour.

So, there were 16 in favour of amendment 6, no abstentions, and there were 40 against, and therefore the amendment is not agreed.

Vote on amendment 6 to NDM7342 held in accordance with Standing Order 34.11.

Carwyn Jones on behalf of the Labour Group and the Government: Against (30)
Darren Millar on behalf of the Conservative Group: For (10)
Siân Gwenllian on behalf of the Plaid Cymru Group: Against (9)
Mark Reckless on behalf of the Brexit Party Group: For (4)
Gareth Bennett – Independent: Against
Neil Hamilton – United Kingdom Independence Party: For
Neil McEvoy – Independent: For

Amendment not agreed.

The next vote is on amendment 7, in the name of Neil McEvoy. On behalf of the Labour group and Government, Carwyn Jones, how do you cast your 30 votes?

Carwyn Jones AC: Against.

The Welsh Conservatives—Darren Millar, how do you cast your 10 votes?

Darren Millar AC: Abstain.

Plaid Cymru—Siân Gwenllian, how do you cast your nine votes?

Siân Gwenllian AC: Against.

Bexit Party—Mark Reckless, how do you cast your four votes?

Mark Reckless AC: Abstain.

Gareth Bennett.

Gareth Bennett AC: Against.

Neil Hamilton.

Neil Hamilton AC: Against.

Neil McEvoy.

Neil McEvoy AC: In favour.

The result of the vote is that there was one in favour, there were 14 abstentions and 41 against. And therefore, amendment 7 is not agreed.

Vote on amendment 7 to NDM7342held in accordance with Standing Order 34.11.

Carwyn Jones on behalf of the Labour Group and the Government: Against (30)
Darren Millar on behalf of the Conservative Group: Abstain (10)
Siân Gwenllian on behalf of the Plaid Cymru Group: Against (9)
Mark Reckless on behalf of the Brexit Party Group: Abstain (4)
Gareth Bennett – Independent: Against
Neil Hamilton – United Kingdom Independence Party: Against
Neil McEvoy – Independent: For

Amendment not agreed.

The next vote is a vote on amendment 8, tabled in the name of Darren Millar. On behalf of the Labour group and Government, Carwyn Jones, how do you cast your 30 votes?

Carwyn Jones AC: Against.

On behalf of the Welsh Conservative group, Darren Millar, how do you cast your 10 votes?

Darren Millar AC: In favour.

Siân Gwenllian, how do you cast the nine votes of Plaid Cymru?

Siân Gwenllian AC: Against.

Mark Reckless, how do you cast the Brexit Party's four votes?

Mark Reckless AC: In favour.

Gareth Bennett.

Gareth Bennett AC: Against.

Neil Hamilton.

Neil Hamilton AC: Against.

Neil McEvoy.

Neil McEvoy AC: In favour.

The result of the vote is that there were 15 in favour, there were no abstentions and there were 41 against. And therefore, amendment 8 is not agreed.

Vote on amendment 8 to NDM7342held in accordance with Standing Order 34.11.

Carwyn Jones on behalf of the Labour Group and the Government: Against (30)
Darren Millar on behalf of the Conservative Group: For (10)
Siân Gwenllian on behalf of the Plaid Cymru Group: Against (9)
Mark Reckless on behalf of the Brexit Party Group: For (4)
Gareth Bennett – Independent: Against
Neil Hamilton – United Kingdom Independence Party: Against
Neil McEvoy – Independent: For

Amendment not agreed.

That brings us to the vote on the motion as amended.

Motion NDM7342 as amended:
To propose that the Senedd:
1. Declares its general support for the purpose of the proposed new curriculum, which is to enable learners to develop as:
a) ambitious, capable learners, ready to learn throughout their lives;
b)enterprising, creative contributors, ready to play a full part in life and work;
c)ethical, informed citizens of Wales and the world; and
d)healthy, confident individuals, ready to lead fulfilling lives as valued members of society.
2. Agrees that introducing the new curriculum offers a historic opportunity to right many structural injustices in Wales.
3.Welcomes the Welsh Government’s recognition that government has a responsibility to take specific steps to ensure that the curriculum guarantees a baseline of provision for young people across Wales as a matter of basic human rights and welcomes that some elements of the new curriculum will be mandatory as a result.
4.Recognises that the new Curriculum for Wales Humanities guidance “promotes an understanding of the ethnic and cultural diversity within Wales” and “enables learners to take committed social action as participative citizens of their local, national and global communities.”
5. Welcomes the Welsh Government’s commitment to:
a) work with Estyn to ensure that their review of Welsh history takes full account of Welsh, and wider, BAME history, identity and culture; and
b) establishing a working group to oversee the development of learning resources, and identify gaps in current resources or training related to BAME communities, their contributions and experiences.
6. Agrees that the new curriculum should support all learners to learn Welsh and English.

On behalf of the Labour group and Government, Carwyn Jones, how do you cast your 30 votes?

Carwyn Jones AC: In favour.

On behalf of the Welsh Conservatives, Darren Millar, how do you cast your 10 votes?

Darren Millar AC: Abstain.

Siân Gwenllian, how do you cast your nine votes?

Siân Gwenllian AC: Against.

Brexit Party, Mark Reckless, how do you cast your four votes?

Mark Reckless AC: Abstain.

Gareth Bennett.

Gareth Bennett AC: Against.

Neil Hamilton.

Neil Hamilton AC: Against.

Neil McEvoy.

Neil McEvoy AC: Against.

The result of the vote is as follows: there were 30 in favour, 14 abstentions and 12 against. And therefore, the motion as amended is agreed.

Vote on motion NDM7342 as amended held in accordance with Standing Order 34.11.

Carwyn Jones on behalf of the Labour Group and the Government: For (30)
Darren Millar on behalf of the Conservative Group: Abstain (10)
Siân Gwenllian on behalf of the Plaid Cymru Group: Against (9)
Mark Reckless on behalf of the Brexit Party Group: Abstain (4)
Gareth Bennett – Independent: Against
Neil Hamilton – United Kingdom Independence Party: Against
Neil McEvoy – Independent: Against

Motion as amended agreed.

And that brings today's proceedings to a close. Thank you all very much.

The meeting ended at 18:32.

QNR

Questions to the First Minister

Neil McEvoy: Will the First Minister make a statement on the selection process for the expert panel that is to consider the application to dump mud dredged from outside Hinkley nuclear reactor in Welsh waters?

Mark Drakeford: The expert group will advise Ministers on a range of environmental matters in the Hinkley context but the assessment of applications to dispose of dredged sediment is a matter for Natural Resources Wales. There will be an update on the expert group once discussions have been concluded with nominated individuals.

Leanne Wood: What is the Welsh Government doing to improve flood management in the Rhondda?

Mark Drakeford: Rhondda Cynon Taf and Natural Resources Wales are looking at a number of flood risk management schemes, locally and across catchments in the area. Welsh Government is providing full grant support for local authorities to bring forward schemes to help better manage flood risk.

Nick Ramsay: Will the First Minister outline the Welsh Government’s policies for supporting tourism?

Mark Drakeford: On 19 June I indicated that owners of self-contained accommodation should prepare to reopen on 13 July, provided cases of the virus remain under control. In the meantime, over £10 million has been provided to the sector from the economic resilience fund, safeguarding over 4,500 jobs.

Gareth Bennett: What assessment has the First Minister made of how effective the co-ordinated UK-wide response to coronavirus has been?

Mark Drakeford: I remain committed to a four-nation approach to responding to the coronavirus crisis. I continue to urge the UK Government to establish a regular, reliable rhythm of engagement between the four UK nations in order to promote effective co-ordination.

Carwyn Jones: Will the First Minister outline what financial help has been given by the Welsh Government to businesses in Bridgend since the Covid-19 outbreak?

Mark Drakeford: The Welsh Government continues to support the economy of the whole of Wales, including businesses in Bridgend, through a number of initiatives, including the economic resilience fund, which opened its second phase on Monday. For the first phase of the economic resilience fund, we are currently processing over 280 applications from Bridgend-based firms, worth over £5 million.

Jenny Rathbone: What priority is the Welsh Government giving to children’s rights to an education in light of the public health measures required to combat coronavirus?

Mark Drakeford: The decision to increase operations in schools from 29 June was guided by an approach based on equality of access, as all learners have a right to education and to be supported in their learning. This phased approach aims to mitigate the negative impacts on learners caused by COVID-19.

Questions to the Minister for International Relations and the Welsh Language

John Griffiths: What aspects of Wales’s international relations may be strengthened as a result of the experience of Covid-19?

Eluned Morgan: I am reviewing how we deliver the international strategy in light of the COVID-19 pandemic and will be producing a series of action plans during the autumn. These will set out how we can strengthen our international relationships, including through our priority countries and regions and our work in Africa.

Llyr Gruffydd: What steps will the Minister take to protect the interests of Welsh businesses in any international trade deals after the end of the transition period with the European Union?

Eluned Morgan: I and my officials are working closely with the Department for International Trade to ensure that the UK Government represents the interests of Welsh businesses and consumers in negotiations. The ministerial forum for trade has met twice and I have regular contact with Greg Hands, the Minister of State for Trade Policy.

Huw Irranca-Davies: What assessment has the Minister made of any risks to consumers and producers in Wales resulting from a UK/US trade deal?

Eluned Morgan: We continually assess the potential risks including through the Cabinet Sub-committee on European Transition and Trade. As a result of our initial assessment we have been consistently clear that any deal with the USA must not result in undermining environmental standards and putting our producers and consumers at risk.

Neil Hamilton: Will the Minister provide an update on the discussions held with the UK Government on promoting international trade as part of the Brexit process?

Eluned Morgan: I am in regular contact with the Minister of State for Trade Policy, Greg Hands. We, the Department for International Trade and Devolved Administrations Ministers, have also met twice now through the new formal ministerial forum for trade. The third meeting is due to take place imminently.

Questions to the Deputy Minister for Culture, Sport and Tourism

Andrew R.T. Davies: Will the Minister make a statement on the resumption of recreational sport in Wales?

Yr Arglwydd / Lord Elis-Thomas: Looking after our physical and mental well-being is always important, and is especially so during this coronavirus outbreak. Most outdoor sport and recreation facilities are now allowed to open, but there are currently restrictions on team and contact sports.

Questions to the Minister for Finance and Trefnydd

Rhianon Passmore: Will the Minister provide an update on changes to the Welsh Government's taxation policy to support businesses in light of the Covid-19 pandemic?

Rebecca Evans: As we move into the recovery phase I am considering the role taxes might play in supporting businesses in Wales alongside the other fiscal measures available, both devolved and non‑devolved.

Dai Lloyd: Will the Minister make a statement on the Welsh Government's capital spending plans in South Wales West?

Rebecca Evans: Through our ambitious capital plans we are investing in public services infrastructure across all parts of Wales. Investments in South Wales West include £9.7 million to improve the neonatal care unit in Singleton Hospital and the £29 million twenty-first century schools development at Cefn Saeson in Neath Port Talbot.

Paul Davies: What assessment has the Minister made of the impact of the Welsh Government's public procurement policy?

Rebecca Evans: Our innovative policy approaches are having a positive impact. Wales-based suppliers now win 52 per cent of the annual £6.467 billion procurement expenditure, up from a 2004 baseline of 35 per cent.

Questions to the Senedd Commission

Huw Irranca-Davies: What consideration has been given to increased digital support to allow the expansion of home-working and remote-working amongst Commission staff?

Member of the Senedd: Nearly all Commission staff have been working from home since the lockdown arrangements came into force at the end of March, with only a limited number of essential staff—security and maintenance—regularly attending site. The delivery of the Commission information and communications technology strategy over the last three years, which has seen the move to Office365 and the replacement of desktop PCs with laptops, has proven to be of significant benefit in supporting remote working. During the period of lockdown we have been surveying staff to understand how we can continue to support them whilst working from home. We will use all of this learning when considering how we might beneficially adapt current working practices for the future, including more opportunities for home and virtual working.